8 Years of Peace?

[19Bones79]

What follows is a largely sanitised version of the original OP on X. You can judge by the content which descriptions were omitted, or you can see for yourself in the link below:



Cleaned up Tweet:

"" 
    Seems Trump is making some nice moves.
So did Lenin in 1921 and Hitler in 1933.

Let me elaborate a bit about these THREE PERIODS:
1: NOW
2: 1921
3: 1933

It is very important to understand history.
We have been through five years of evilness and people want a period of good times otherwise there will be revolt. The psychopaths who have usurped power know this.
This period reminds of two previous very important periods in our history.

Period 1= 2020 - NOW
We have just been through five years of
- corona-hoax, lock down, masks, humiliation, conflict, fear and forced injection of poison
- clima-scam with HAARP induced hurricanes and DEW,
- massive illegal immigration of millions and millions of young men who are allowed to rape with impunity and stay at 4 star hotels while old people can't afford to heat their homes
- genocidal wars in Ukraine and Gaza where *redacted* indirectly and directly massmurder their hated *redacted* as instructed in their satanic book the *redacted*
- while massmurdering millions with the covid vax they kept talking about "white hats" who soon would arrest aaaaaaaaall the politicians (that of course never happened). It would be very difficult for the dark side to recruit traitors, if that happened. (19Bones79 note: Q anyone?) 

RESULT:
People are really really tired of this miss management and flagrant evilness on behalf of our governments. So we will now get 4 to 8 years of peace and progress.

COMPARE THIS WITH TWO IMPORTANT PERIODS IN HISTORY (2 and 3):

PERIOD 2.  1917-1921
*redacted* Bolsheviks unleashed hell on Earth on the mainly Orthodox Christian people of Russia mass murdering, torturing, raping and plundering millions upon millions. Meanwhile they wrote in the controlled mainstream media, that very soon a "White Army" of gigantic proportions would come and save them all. That was a lie, there was no new secret White Army being build. The White Army lost to the Red Army because the evil banksters only funded and sold weapons to the Red Army and made a total blockade on any sale of weapon  to the White Army.

In 1921 people had had enough, refugees in the West were close to persuading Germany, France and England to attack the *redacted* Bolsheviks in the USSR. Ukrainians were revolting as were the Kosaks and all the farmers by the Volga river. 
Lenin got the brilliant idea to fake it. 
He reintroduced capitalism and private property rights with his NEP, New Economic Program, and even Freedom of Speech with his Operation Trust. That lasted eight years until 1929 when Stalin went totally mental and unleashed an even larger murderspree. A total of 66 million were killed by the *redacted* Bolsheviks from 1917 - 1939 with a relatively peaceful period from 1921 - 1929.


PERIOD 3: 1919 - 1933 in Germany

The Germans were systematically robbed, plundered and starved by the *redacted* banksters after the extremely unjust Versailles treaty made by mainly *redacted* politicians.

(Listen to whistleblower Benjamin Friedmann's speech from 1961, he was present at Versailles). 
We all know about the economic "miracle" the Germans made in the 1930's. It wasn't really a miracle, it was just normal economic progress anyone can have once we get rid of the parasitic *redacted* Mafiya robbing us all of our birthright to live in peace, prosperity, freedom, truth and abundance.


CONCLUSION:

The last two times people had had enough they were given 8 years of prosperity and peace. But this was only for the mafiya to be able to win time because shortly after THEN HELL WENT DOWN ON THEM

We all know what happened to the Russian and German people whom the *redacted* following stark raving mad *redacted* hate with a vengeance never seen anywhere else before in human history.



TO AVOID THE SAME HAPPENING THIS TIME 
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO DEMAND JUSTICE AND THAT ALL MEMBERS OF THE *redacted* MAFIYA IS TOTALLY REMOVED FROM ANY POSITION OF INFLUENCE:


- FEDERAL RESERVE

- US CONGRESS

- HOLLYWOOD

- MAINSTREAM MEDIA

- EDUCATION

ALL *redacted* FOLLOWERS MUST BE TOTALLY REMOVED FROM ALL THESE INSTITUTIONS.


The *redacted* Mafiya
- privatised fraudulently the Federal Reserve in 1913
- started WWI, bolshevik revolution, WWI
- created League of Nations, UN, NATO
- is hell bent on their one world government where they rule the world and ALL *redacted*  are slaves
- we are to some extent already slaves as we pay close to 100% in taxes if you include the "free"-time we spend on filling in self incrimintating forms and supporting the mafiyas surveillance of us.



*95% of Bolshevik leaders were *redacted*, 
92% of Gulag Commanders were *redacted*,  
80% of the Cheka leaders were *redacted*,  and 
50% of the NKVD Generals were *redacted*.


Link to Tweet


I'm guessing it's not really necessary for anyone reading this far to click on the link to gain a better understanding, which is ironical if you think about it.  


The important aspect here is whether or not the correlation between our present day situation and the other 2 examples are valid or not.

Judge for yourselves. 

[19Bones79]

   


The poisoned apple..

[Ksihkehe]

I strongly object to the use of "Jews" as a perpetual placeholder for something that is neither exclusive to them, nor even a predominant view in the population. It just lazy and the influencers that use it are under the same umbrella of subversives as the people that blame whites or blacks or whoever else. Not only does it fall under that umbrella, but it comes with a built in target for equally subversive rhetoric from the opposing side. It can easily be summarily dismissed by the rules of subversive rhetoric, which it can't rigorously defend against because it is itself subversive.

White people have colonized half the planet, often with the help of Jews, and neither white me or my Jewish wife have been beneficiaries of this colonization beyond whatever is available to everyone with the low station of our birth (and often not even that).

Israel is ruled by the subversives. Israel isn't Jews any more than the UK is whites. The UK is ruled by subversives. Germany is ruled by subversives. Different racial and ethnic groups will always have varying degrees of preference for others within that group. Across the globe it is clearly evident that though subversives will prefer their ethnic or racial group, they will prefer other subversives or material gain over dissenters or even the neutral members within their own groups.

It's easier to list events and records than to actually define the problem, which is appealing (to subversives). If one were to teach everyone on the planet "it was the Jews", they will still have no idea what the real problems are because the problem isn't really "the Jews". It can't even be defined by broader political terms like Marxism or communism.

They've been expelled from how many countries? I forget what the claim is now, 129? How effective was that at stopping the same situations from happening again? It didn't and, in the absence of these displaced Jews that allegedly caused all the problems, the subversives within those cultures or countries immediately went to work to start leaning on that agenda for their own benefit. They all have been eager to get into bed with the same banking cartels and oligarchs, with few exceptions. Everywhere that this has taken place has had a willing base of eager supporters, always the same kinds of weak and selfish people (if you thought it was subversives you were right too).

So, I have no doubt that this person has gathered a bunch of things and they may all be true. If somebody lists all the things white people did it's going to be even longer and I feel nothing but contempt for the people that did those things. It's not really informative and doesn't do anything to help people recognize the real issues. The whites that colonized half the planet had an anti-human agenda. Jews that facilitated the slave trade did too. The tribal chiefs that sold other Africans into slavery had an anti-human agenda as well. We can take either whites, Jews, or blacks out of that equation entirely and the slave trade would have still gone on because it's anti-human subversive behavior that is the actual problem. It's the agenda against freedom, all about being encumbered with things you can't control, like the vagina you came out of (or belly you were cut out of for convenience, which is another nasty subversive trend).

You kick out "the Jews", you have done nothing to solve your real problems. You stop making subversion profitable, social acceptable, and promoted as a virtue... and the subversives will move on to greener pastures. It's irrelevant what their ethnicity, gender, race, BMI, shoes size, or whatever else is. If it is no longer advantageous to be subversive it is the very nature of subversives to simply move along to someplace easier to operate in.

So, while I am not one to think that everyone that uses this as a placeholder is a Nazi, I have stopped reading them for the most part. When I see these posters on social media or streams I think of people that have failed to properly frame their problems. In addition they have no actual solutions to the problem they did frame other than the most egregious acts of subversion like racial/ethnic cleansing or expulsion... which in addition to being bookends for things like rape and torture on the subversive scales, solve nothing.

I hope I'm making sense. The people that want to censor this are subversive too, because then we can never discuss it. If we can't discuss it then it just "proves" it's true of course. This leads to more of the same this is easily marginalized due to the extreme remedies that the framing implies must be undertaken. This is a negative feedback loop, which is great for the bad guys.

On a free and open discussion forum there is no need to resort to heavily laden shorthand. The nuance can be fleshed out and there will be no subversion of that free and open discussion. Take the time to identify, classify, and excoriate, the actual enemy. Reject any appeals to subversive tactics, ignore attempts at generalization, and drill down how and why those tactics seem to work every time they're used (so that we do not continue to respond in ways that are ineffective). Let the crowd that keeps selling "the Jews" as the problem keep trading fire with their fellow subversives.

Unfortunately, these threads on the socials will continue and they will probably continue to be hamster wheels that don't move anything forward.

Okay, that's enough long posts from me for a bit. I've written so much in the past few days I'm not going to remember most of it until I read it again later.

[FCD]

I'm just going to come out and say it...

The jewish people don't need to go anywhere.  What needs to go, and go now, is Netanyahu, his warlord cabinet, his international propaganda machine, AND especially the meddling MOSSAD!

There's no other way to say it.  Netanyahu is not going to stop until he takes over all of Mandatory Palestine, OR until they light off WW3 in the Middle East, one or the other.  Netanyahu has openly stated his intent is to conquer and control the entire region. 

There will be no peace until Netanyahu and his cronies along with the MOSSAD are gone, gone...GONE!

Oh, and it's sad I have to write this last disclaimer, but you can blame the Netanyahu propaganda machine for my having to say it...I am actually pro-Israel.  But just like any country, they are not perfect, and they have insulated themselves from criticism to the point that anyone who says one single negative thing about the Israeli government is instantly branded antisemitic.  This is not acceptable.

Edit - Oh, and I didn't vote.  Sorry, OP, I didn't like the feeling of trying to guess how long it would take for someone to insert the word "Jew".  These elites think their opinions matter, and they don't.  In fact, all they do is inflame things further and serve no productive purpose.  That's my opinion.

[19Bones79]

I strongly object to the use of "Jews" as a perpetual placeholder for something that is neither exclusive to them, nor even a predominant view in the population. It just lazy and the influencers that use it are under the same umbrella of subversives as the people that blame whites or blacks or whoever else. 

I agree 100% you can NEVER label an entire group with a blanket statement of intent or behavior.

I'm not sure how to quote and respond to each pertinent observation individually within a single reply that's this extensive but I will respond in such a manner as to remain coherent throughout.

Your point about subversiveness is well received. 

Blind hatred is something I can never subscribe to. 

It is intellectually lazy for one, and who's to say the objective of such an endeavor is not simply a way for TPTB to have individuals voluntarily identify and categorize themselves to be dealt with when social credit scores are put in place in the near future?


Quote: "White people have colonized half the planet, often with the help of Jews, and neither white me or my Jewish wife have been beneficiaries of this colonization beyond whatever is available to everyone with the low station of our birth (and often not even that). "

I would point out that living in a modern day first world country is a benefit in and of itself which has direct correlations to the resources harvested during the days of overt colonialism. 

While your bank account may not prove the point, there are other benefits to living in a 1st world country that are very obvious to people coming from a third world country. 

And without the resources of those 3rd world countries I doubt that there would be many 1st world countries as we know them today. 

Even today, false flags and flat out lies are the method of choice for civilized countries to obtain more resources from their intended victims. 

So we have the disconnect of living in the age of democracy in the West while it is ruled with the strong arm tactics of a dictator that never shows his face.

When the public learn the truth about Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin, the Iraq 'War', 9/11 and Afghanistan, the greater plan for the middle East that was planned out as far back as the late '40s (officially) something very interesting happens in the mind.

The person experiencing the revelations identifies intent with repeatable patterns during different times in history and yet the next time there is a' war' (hostile corporate takeover of resources) they throw their weight square behind their brave soldiers who 'guard the wall at night while you sleep'.

Meanwhile, what is known as the 'federal reserve' is the enemy within that finally kills an empire. 

Why, when we have such smart people at the helm with the added assistance of thinktanks could no one foresee that the federal reserve bank with its debt structure not inevitably lead to a situation where that debt becomes insurmountable to the point where a country could be manipulated to the point where it would appear to have lost its collective mind?

Because the truth about our 'free societies' is that we are not free. 

Decisions with global repercussions are still made by individuals, behind the scenes, that are following a very fluid plan that ultimately leads to the endgame of world domination, as symbolized in the game of Monopoly. 

These individuals are supported by secret societies that are populated by men from all walks of life that swear loyalty with the threat of death or worse as punishment for betraying the cause. 

To ensure the loyalty of these spineless sociopaths they are entrapped in acts that were they to become public knowledge it would destroy the person involved.

That's how the American government is 'kept in line' to make nonsensical, counterintuitive decisions that damage the society they swore to uphold and defend. 

These people are so powerful a glimpse of how they control everything was seen when Epstein was despatched with the utmost impunity. 

We know that American politicians have handlers. 

We know who the biggest lobbying group is.

We know that there is always partisanship across the aisle when they vote on certain issues.

We know who runs the biggest company in the world. 

We know who runs the single most effective propaganda machine in the world, Hollywood.

We know who's coming to town when John Fetterman decides to wear a suit. 

Going back in history we know who solidified centralized banking in Europe to the point where monarchs became 'symbolic figures intended to convey a sense of pride and boost tourism'. 

Same with diamonds, gold and oil. 

I have seen some statistics about ship owners during the slave trade era and other stats, but while interesting I'm not hedging my bets on that.

Before centralized, federal reserve banks I am of the opinion that world wars would be a logistical impossibility.

The counter argument would be that many scientific achievements would also never have been realized if the Fed never existed. 

Which brings us to the question :is it the Fed that is a problem or merely the way that usury is implemented. 

To which I would argue that the individuals that met in secret at Jekyll Island would never have gone through all the trouble of creating the Fed had it not had the potential of being such a profitable venture while enabling those who run it to have unimaginable leverage over those that fall under its umbrella, or tentacles if you will. 

I believe more than 90% of all countries have been conquered this way.

I believe there is a 4th Abrahamic religion, known in the popular vernacular as Satanism. 

I believe that the other 3 Abrahamic religions have built-in backdoors that enable people to move in-between them and Satanism as the perfect camouflage and most effective example of human mimicry in all known history.

I believe it can be traced back to Babylonian Talmudism and very likely further back into the mists of obscurity. 

I believe that most races now suffer from identity amnesia, we have no idea who or what our ancestors were to an informative extent where we could either reject or return to our natural progression before the three pointed Abrahamic movement with the fourth one being the all-seeing eye mentally enslaved most of the global population.

We know that missionaries did not go forth by being shining examples of a god of love but by the sword. 

If the message is truly love, then where in history have we seen such an altruistic act where the adherents to any Abrahamic religion acted without greed being the true motivator spurned on by fear?

Why are Christians, Jews and Muslims so incompatible if they all worship the same god?

How can people whose savior, Jesus Christ, be best friends with those who believe that the very savior mentioned was the biggest threat to Jewish beliefs and that he is currently boiling in a vat of his own feces in hell?

How can people who support their soldiers unquestionably turn their backs when the USS Liberty incident is brought up?

How can some of the nicest people I've ever met online coldheartedly state that even the women and children in Gaza are terrorists and to kill them all because they deserve it?

What percentage of Jews worldwide support the wholesale slaughter of innocents in Gaza?

I do believe that the Jewish culture functions the way it does because of learned insularity and a belief of superiority over all other people. 

Not mainly because of historical persecution but because of the holy books and what they describe. 

I know there isn't an overarching bridge that connects it to Christianity because of it's figurehead, as demonstrated.

I know there was no uproar by Jewish people when usury was successfully implemented in all Christian countries against Christians and that it is forbidden for a Jew to charge interest to another Jew. 

I know that in Christianity usury is strictly forbidden, so if America is a Christian nation I seriously have my doubts. 

I do not doubt however that America was a Christian nation at one point wrt the people living there, but history has shown us they are easily manipulated into going along with whatever the elite want. 

On the dollar bill is the pyramid with the eye of providence. 

To me it symbolizes the 4 Abrahamic religions as mentioned earlier. 

At the risk of trailing off into my own thoughts of how to adequately frame my views to illustrate my position effectively I will stop here except to say this:

There are innocent people in all walks of life. 

If I didn't believe that I would be a hypocrite for criticizing Zionists because I would be showcasing that exact same stupidity albeit from an opposing viewpoint.

I want all the killings to stop. 

I want this world to arrive at a place where innocents are never put at risk by the ambitions of the money moguls. 

I want people to see that our beliefs and the world we find ourselves in are at odds with one another, and that it was manufactured to operate exactly the way it does which is why believers in the same denomination of faith but from different centuries won't even recognize each other if they were to have a 5 minute conversation with one another.

I mostly recognize patterns with a strong dose of intuition bourne out of a desire to accurately express wrong and right, something the Abrahamic faiths failed to do. 

If I were to bring up the actions of the old testament God, it instantly becomes an issue of sovereignty, not a moral argument. 

There are so many disconnects and mental schisms that for most people their ability to investigate is stopped in its tracks by a mental cut off switch. 

Which makes the propaganda undefeatable. 

Someone would even die for a manufactured cause. 

It happened 2000 years ago and it happened during the world wars.

Or, I can say that's crazy and trumpet the official narrative of the people that gifted Americans with Section 230.

Our world is ruled by lies and secrets, I think we can all agree on that. 


Nothing good ever comes from lies and secrets. 


I'll go over your excellent reply again today and respond to anything that I haven't addressed either directly or vaguely in my response.

And feel free to highlight anything specific I need to address.

I appreciate the opportunity to clarify my views and realize how difficult that can be when the intention is not to deceive or outright lie about one's motivations while traversing such a murky subject while the truth is very likely even more shocking but the facts are hidden.

[19Bones79]

Edit - Oh, and I didn't vote.  Sorry, OP, I didn't like the feeling of trying to guess how long it would take for someone to insert the word "Jew".  These elites think their opinions matter, and they don't.  In fact, all they do is inflame things further and serve no productive purpose.  That's my opinion.

I didn't expect anyone to vote honestly I am aware that I sometimes incorporate cheekiness to an extent where it becomes shock value. 

I have always been naturally inclined to support an underdog against seemingly impossible odds because I know that extreme advantage is being taken. 

I get that people could easily bring up the size of the global Jewish population as an argument to paint my previous statement as invalid. 

I also believe that my reply to Ksihkehe illustrated my belief that physical numbers does not determine the underdog but rather the power a particular group wields. 

It's not the easiest position to maintain against an auto-ingrained narrative, it's not profitable and has the added bonus of feeling ostracised by those you wish to warn sincerely. 

Add in the tightrope of not wanting to create a zealotry fueled by blind hatred and you have the most delicate of situations that I believe I am not adequately equipped to always represent with extreme clarity whether it is by incompetence, a lack of access to more information or both. 

In a nutshell, it becomes a minefield with little to no reward. 

And yet, if I'm to uphold a personal sense of honesty I can not but keep investigating that which compels my intuition. 

Perhaps people can understand that without having to agree to anything I have to say. 

A question that just popped into my head:

Can people agree that the truth should be capable of standing on its own merit and that to put the chains of political correctness on what is represented as the truth does absolutely nothing to convince people with different opinions and in fact makes it appear weak and fragile?

[19Bones79]

Israel is ruled by the subversives. Israel isn't Jews any more than the UK is whites. The UK is ruled by subversives. Germany is ruled by subversives. 

I think the whole world is ruled by subversives. 

Unified and in a deliberate concerted fashion. 

How can a world where people believe there will always be war as long as there are humans not see how these subversives bury their differences behind the scenes to work to the benefit of those truly in control and not in fact someone propped up for a 4 or 8 year term?

What of JFK? How come Trump said that the truth is too horrifying for the normal people to handle?

I also believe that comparing white people worldwide as a group in comparison to Jewish people with a group identity is a false equivalency. 

I do however believe we are dealing with traitors from each culture of the white race, and other races, and that very soon Globalism will fully destroy the culture of each and every one of us. 

But I also believe that one culture will endure because they have naturally remained insulated wherever they go. 

White people, black people and others assimilate into their adopted cultures at the cost of whatever happened to be their previous culture.

White people in Australia are Ozzies. 
White people in England are Brits. 

In general the defining aspect of Jewish people in countries all over the world remain their insular stance, while at the same time manipulating the host country from positions of power.

How many - isms are directly attributable to the minds of Jewish individuals that were financed by other Jewish individuals?

I contend that this group have shaped our world whether it be financially, politically, spiritually or through technological markers.

I contend that the names are out there for all to see from banking to AI to globalism. 

I contend that the Jewish creator of Dilbert can criticise the entire black race without facing repercussions while a billionaire like Kanye West has the threat of losing everything for doing the exact same thing against Jews. 

So if the whole world is ruled by subversive traitors to their people regardless of race or religion or culture, what would be the unifying factor behind the scenes? 

Do we apply Occam's razor and if so, do we apply it effectively? 

Why is the mainstream narratives not filled with historians discussing this very issue?

   

[19Bones79]

As per Grok:


"" 


Here are several famous quotes from prominent Jewish figures of the late 19th century that encouraged unity among Jews:

Theodor Herzl:
"The antisemites WILL BECOME our most loyal friends, the antisemites nations will become our allies." This quote reflects Herzl's strategic view that even opposition could be turned into a unifying force for Jewish nationalism.

"When Herzl considered the language of the new state, he wrote of Yiddish: 'We shall give up using those miserable stunted jargons, those Ghetto languages which we still employ, for these were the stealthy tongues of prisoners.'" This quote, while controversial, was aimed at fostering a new, unified identity through the adoption of Hebrew.
David Ben-Gurion:
"The state of Israel will be worthy of its name only if its social, economic, political, and judicial structure will be based upon these three eternal words: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" This encapsulates the ideal of unity and mutual respect within the Jewish community.

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks (although slightly later than the 19th century, his thoughts reflect earlier sentiments):
"Jewish unity exists as an idea. Why then should it not exist as a fact?" This quote from Rabbi Sacks underscores the aspiration for tangible Jewish unity.

Albert Einstein:
"What unified the Jews for thousands of years, and still does today, is above all the ideal of social justice together with the ideal of mutual aid and tolerance between all people on the face of the planet." Einstein's words highlight the unifying values of Judaism.

Natan Sharansky:
"There is no power in the world that can stand against us when we feel a part of our history, part of our people and part of this historic struggle." This quote emphasizes the strength derived from unity and shared history.


These quotes collectively reflect the call for unity among Jews, emphasizing shared values, history, and the collective struggle for identity and rights during a pivotal time in Jewish history.


"" 



White people have never uttered a similar desire because there is no unifying culture. 

Black people utter a similar ideal but it is based on wishful thinking and impractical. 

Indians and Asians  become successful in their adopted countries without rising to positions of power where the opportunity is taken to weaken a country from the inside as a collective.

Yes the races mentioned above do have sycophant traitors all of us, but there is an Olympics where one group can be compared to Usain Bolt racing against toddlers.

And that is the how many countries were you kicked out of and it was never your fault olympics. 

2nd place would be in the low double digits where in total the gold medalist have been kicked out of officially 109 countries over more than a thousand times. 

It would be disingenuous to avoid asking why in spite of the narrative doing everything in its ability to discourage such curiosity.

[FCD]

I didn't expect anyone to vote honestly I am aware that I sometimes incorporate cheekiness to an extent where it becomes shock value. 

I have always been naturally inclined to support an underdog against seemingly impossible odds because I know that extreme advantage is being taken. 

I get that people could easily bring up the size of the global Jewish population as an argument to paint my previous statement as invalid. 

I also believe that my reply to Ksihkehe illustrated my belief that physical numbers does not determine the underdog but rather the power a particular group wields. 

It's not the easiest position to maintain against an auto-ingrained narrative, it's not profitable and has the added bonus of feeling ostracised by those you wish to warn sincerely. 

Add in the tightrope of not wanting to create a zealotry fueled by blind hatred and you have the most delicate of situations that I believe I am not adequately equipped to always represent with extreme clarity whether it is by incompetence, a lack of access to more information or both. 

In a nutshell, it becomes a minefield with little to no reward. 

And yet, if I'm to uphold a personal sense of honesty I can not but keep investigating that which compels my intuition. 

Perhaps people can understand that without having to agree to anything I have to say. 

A question that just popped into my head:

Can people agree that the truth should be capable of standing on its own merit and that to put the chains of political correctness on what is represented as the truth does absolutely nothing to convince people with different opinions and in fact makes it appear weak and fragile?

As I opined in another thread, any discussion about Israel (unless it is over the top positive) in any way shape or form has been made so impossibly difficult by the Israeli government's propaganda machine.  Even the slightest mention of a single criticism gets one branded antisemitic.  Lately, it has gotten so bad that a person isn't just branded antisemitic, but also labeled pro-hamas supporter and terrorist sympathizer.  This is absurd, and nothing could be further from the truth.  Dispense with that argument, and the next layer of defense is to label people Holocaust deniers and/or nazi sympathizers.  Again, nothing could be further from the truth.  Dispense with that argument, and the next layer of defense is to point out the size of Israel in comparison to the size of the surrounding Islamic regions.  This whole time any critical discussion is deflected until these initial arguments are defeated (which, quite frankly, is impossible).  This is all by design.  And, what happens is, this only adds fuel to the truly antisemitic protesters, the exact opposite of the intended effect...or is it?

Reverse psychology would have it that by adding fuel to your opponent's fire, you draw sympathy and more importantly attention onto your own perceived plight and/or agenda.  This also is by design.

I'm sorry, but Israel really does love to play the victim role.  And, some might argue they have good reason to.  I might even agree to an extent, but I would also argue that there have been many changes since then in terms of societal advancement.  That is, save one; the Oct 7, 2023 attacks by hamas.

You may notice I have consciously avoided the topic of the Oct 7th, 2023 hamas led terrorist attacks in the discussion so far.  I have done this for a reason. Candidly, I am unable to square Israel's response to the attacks on Oct 7th with other similar conflicts around the globe.  The Oct 7th attacks killed 1,200 Israeli's and 250 were taken hostage.  (not even going to get into friendly fire deaths by Israel).  In return, to date, some 45,000 Palestinians have been killed.  Compare this to the events of 9/11, where 3,000 Americans were killed.  The American response in both Iraq and Afghanistan has resulted in roughly 260,000 deaths, but this is over a period of two decades.  In less than 18 months IDF forces have killed fully 20%  the total number of people as the entire Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts have in nearly two decades.  Were those trends to continue, in just ten years (half the duration of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts), IDF forces will have killed 2X the total number of persons killed in all of Iraq and Afghanistan...combined!  That's a pretty serious imbalance if you ask me.

So, this is why I have left the events of Oct 7th out of the discussion.  I'm not taking a side here, but the way I look at it is the attack and the responses to date cancel each other out, hence my omission.  I only included that part for transparency and full disclosure (not to debate the events of Oct 7th).

Moving on...

Back on the 17th you wrote an OP asking to define "Greatest Ally" and in that OP you made some excellent points.  I pointed you to the book Spy Fail by James Bamford (and I do hope you read it) which only further supported many of the points you made in your OP and subsequent replies.  I think we have to factor in the "Ally" element into this discussion (or at least some of the points I am making here).  The Israeli people are a great friend of the American people.  And, historically, Israel has been a great ally of the US...sort of.  It's kind of like...'The enemy of my enemy is my friend'...sort of thing.  But then we have to consider events which have transpired in history which give pause to these alliances.  One such incident is the Vela Incident in 1979.  This one has fascinated me since the 1980's.  Now so many years later it seems almost certain the Vela Incident was Israel (or possibly Israel in consort with South Africa) conducting an atmospheric test of a nuclear weapon out over the Southern Ocean.  I would note also, this was in complete defiance of all established nuclear testing treaties at the time.  One might question why an "ally" would test a nuclear weapon without the knowledge of their alliance partners, and do it in such a way which was clearly designed to deceive American satellites.  Unbeknownst to the Israeli's though, there was an old retired satellite watching.  Oops!  So, perhaps it's allies when the wind is blowing the right way. (?)  I digress, but I think you see the point.

Taking all of this in, I try to look at the larger picture objectively.  I try to wipe clean any preconceived notions of underdogs and bullies, right or wrong, and evaluate the facts based on the information available.  I honestly don't disagree with anything you are saying, I am merely taking a different path to evaluating the circumstances.  At the end of the day I do not believe the Islamic extremist view of the world is the right one.  In fact, I believe it to be fatally flawed.  However, in the same breath, I cannot deny that fully 25% of the global population is Islamic, and 80-90% of the population of the region surrounding Israel is Islamic.  At the same time, I also lived in a Muslim country for several years working, and I'm not Muslim, but rather a Christian if anything.  So, I have perhaps a unique perspective on the Muslim culture from a non-Muslim point of view.  I've also traveled extensively for work, so much so that I had to carry two passports (one for stamps into and out of Israel, and another for everywhere else).  Why?  Because many countries in the Middle East will not allow you to enter their Port with an Israeli stamp in your Passport.  Now, this may have changed since the mid-90's when I was doing most of my traveling, but it just serves as an example of how much polarization there is, of how much misinformation abounds and how propaganda controls not only beliefs but customs.

Your final statement questioning whether the truth can stand on it's own was a perfect statement.  I often ask the same..."Why is it so difficult for people to dispense with all the bullshit and propaganda and just get down to the truth?"  Sometimes this can entail reading the "other side's" take on matters.  What are their opinions and views?  In today's polarized environment, this level of objectivity is simply unthinkable to some.  I might loathe selected media outlets whom I know hold an opposing viewpoint and agenda to mine, but I read them none the less.  "Hold thy friend close, but hold thine enemy closer"...is a good rule thumb.

Let the truth stand on its own.

[19Bones79]

Excellent observations all around, much appreciated FCD. 

It seems to me that somehow these days the biggest issue for a lot of people is how easy it is to not only lie to others but also to themselves.


As if they didn't know who they themselves believe are the father of lies. 

Is it a noble endeavor to defend an accepted lie?

Is a country free when it's doings are shrouded in lies and perception management?

What does a Christian mean when they accept something as a 'necessary evil'?

Does though shalt not kill mean anything to anyone anymore?

Did it mean anything back in OT times?


Also thank you for the reminder of the book admittedly it slipped from my radar. 

I need to read it.