(03-26-2025, 10:33 AM)19Bones79 Wrote: Yes, there have always been malicious intent. 

That was not really my question. I asked if there necessarily has to be, in case of decline. I asked if you think it's possible that decline is the result of politicians or voters, who mean well, making poor choices over time.

Quote:What about the manufactured polarity and identity politics?

I wouldn't say it's manufactured in the sense that it was planned. It's a result of the advent of social media and people's deteriorating relationship with the truth.

Quote:What was covid about, in your personal opinion?

What was it about? It was a pandemic. If you want my take on the cause, I believe it was probably accidentally leaked from a lab.

Quote:Do you believe that secret societies don't factor into the equation?

I believe they exist, but they don't have nearly the amount of influence you think they do.

(03-27-2025, 04:41 AM)TokenLiberal Wrote: That was not really my question. I asked if there necessarily has to be, in case of decline. I asked if you think it's possible that decline is the result of politicians or voters, who mean well, making poor choices over time.


I wouldn't say it's manufactured in the sense that it was planned. It's a result of the advent of social media and people's deteriorating relationship with the truth.


What was it about? It was a pandemic. If you want my take on the cause, I believe it was probably accidentally leaked from a lab.


I believe they exist, but they don't have nearly the amount of influence you think they do.

Do I believe the decline of an empire can occur because of a result of poor choices, bad management?


If there's no deliberate harmful intent, it's a coin flip at best that a decision is beneficial to the country and it's people or not.

I think you would agree that what we have been witnessing is bad decision after bad decision in so many sectors of western societies that it becomes statistically impossible that all the coins just happen to have landed on tails.

Factor in that there is a tapered trajectory originating decades ago in the 'modern era', if you will.

It wasn't random. 

It wasn't chaotic. 

It's a pattern that should be quite easy to spot for anyone interested in history and how the decline of the West, the US in this example, was actively and deliberately managed.

Perhaps you can give me examples of stupid choices with no ill intent behind them?

(03-27-2025, 11:02 AM)19Bones79 Wrote: Do I believe the decline of an empire can occur because of a result of poor choices, bad management?

If there's no deliberate harmful intent, it's a coin flip at best that a decision is beneficial to the country and it's people or not.

I think you would agree that what we have been witnessing is bad decision after bad decision in so many sectors of western societies that it becomes statistically impossible that all the coins just happen to have landed on tails.

Not necessarily. A lot of good decisions were made along the way, too. Just some of the more important ones have been bad. But let's not pretend we're completely screwed. We still have a functioning society, as far as it goes. It may not be optimal, but we're not quite dying (yet).

Quote:Perhaps you can give me examples of stupid choices with no ill intent behind them?

Trump.

(03-27-2025, 05:13 PM)TokenLiberal Wrote: Not necessarily. A lot of good decisions were made along the way, too. Just some of the more important ones have been bad. But let's not pretend we're completely screwed. We still have a functioning society, as far as it goes. It may not be optimal, but we're not quite dying (yet).


Trump.

Could you provide a small list of consequential good decisions vs bad ones?


What are the qualifiers for a functioning society in your opinion, does "not quite dying(yet)" fit that criteria?

"Trump" as an answer is very peculiar, because during his 1st term the fbi, cia, nsa and odni conspired against him.

The MSM lost their minds over him. 

Educated, intelligent grown men reduced their arguments to elementary school level and the pettiness was off the charts. 

The Obama administration spied on him even before he was elected. 

The problem was not that Trump was elected as per the will of the people, it's that an already dysfunctional machinations of state spent a crucial 4 years crying about it and by doing so completely disregarded their duty to perform in the best interests of the will of the people that make up this country and who put him in office. 

Having said that, the question was not addressed in the way it was intended. 

I'm asking about bad decisions made by TPTB, not citizens of America exercising their right to vote for who they believe will represent them most effectively. 

Out of curiosity, where was the confusion?

(03-28-2025, 01:59 AM)19Bones79 Wrote: I'm asking about bad decisions made by TPTB, not citizens of America exercising their right to vote for who they believe will represent them most effectively. 

Out of curiosity, where was the confusion?

No confusion, just a disagreement about who is making the impactful decisions. My whole point is that the future is shaped not by secret societies but by decisions politicians make, and politicians, at least in a democracy, are elected by the people. And the people, who mean well, make stupid decisions sometimes.

While I am inclined to agree that secret societies are nothing more than pageantry and pedantry on the outside, it defeats the purpose of functioning in secret if there's nothing to be secretive about and how members of the fraternity from different walks of life can aid each other in the realization of whatever it is that is deemed important enough to meet in secret for in the first place.

Might as well then just be a registered liberal, haha.

Just a bad joke. My specialty, no offense.

As for the people making stupid decisions as to who to elect and the other option besides Trump was Biden, I'm going to need you to take this discussion more seriously.

That means propping up a 3rd option may look like it was on the menu, but realistically Americans only ever order one of two dishes.

The 3rd option is so that they have an inside man/woman should the people decide to break character within a controlled environment.

The idea that a grassroots movement by the people and for the people could have any discernable impact on the status quo is ludicrous.

I think we can all agree lefty identity politics was sponsored by the elites to create an environment where they can manipulate the narrative away from the real problems facing the empire,which they were complicit in creating, with Republicans supplying a perfectly counter balanced front.

Yes?

Double