Shadow People

[Nugget]

Perhaps something attracted by the emotions and visualisations of talking about the 'paranormal' -- like moths around a flame?

Perhaps mind reading can be done on asubconscious level without people even being aware they do it. 

Everybody instinctively 'reads'  body language to some degree, and people who are aware of how much you can learn about a situation and other people have studied it in depth. It's a great tool to have, especially if you are tring to decide if someone is being sincere.

Scientist have recently proven genetic memory is actually a thing and can last up to three generations, possibly longer. I've thought since I was 20 something that our DNA carrying memoriess might play into past life memories.

I'ma firm believer there's a simple explaination for all things woo, but we'll never find the common demonitaor as long as scientists refuse to believe it's real and give it any serious study. Most of what thy're learning is accidental and far from what they were originally studying.

I always look for more reasonable forces than ghosts and demons. Too many people have that 'sixth sense, yet never develop it because it's assotiated with the devil in organize religion. That kind of negativity and fear gets programmed into the deep recess of our subconscious from early childhood.

Studying beliefs about the Creator from long before we were given an organized christian belief system can be an eye-opener for people who don't live their life coming from a subconscious fear base.

Isn't it funny how most physical demonic/paranormal displays happen in a home where a teenager resides? Hmm....a component of unbridled raging hormones are running rampant?

There's a crossover of what we humans KNOW we can do and what we REALLY are capable of. One book even says we can 'move a mountain' if we have enough faith. We can even heal the sick! 
What is 'faith' if not belief that the impossible is possible.

AI has the possibility of cracking the code on the 'paranormal' and totally change the direction of humanity much like the wheel and the industrial age has.

[Ksihkehe]

Perhaps mind reading can be done on asubconscious level without people even being aware they do it. 

Everybody instinctively 'reads'  body language to some degree, and people who are aware of how much you can learn about a situation and other people have studied it in depth. It's a great tool to have, especially if you are tring to decide if someone is being sincere.

Precognitive effect, involuntary, has been shown in lab studies. To measure the effects under lab conditions with scientific rigor the precognitive window is very small, but it's there. A materialist will insist it's a nuts and bolts effect of physiological functions. That means there is some sort of sensory apparatus or subconscious computation that can predict events that have yet to happen, but most of the physics field doesn't seem eager to run that one down too hard. The broad implications of a dynamic field of consciousness are pretty much not discussed seriously except on the fringes.

I'ma firm believer there's a simple explaination for all things woo, but we'll never find the common demonitaor as long as scientists refuse to believe it's real and give it any serious study. Most of what thy're learning is accidental and far from what they were originally studying.

I always look for more reasonable forces than ghosts and demons. Too many people have that 'sixth sense, yet never develop it because it's assotiated with the devil in organize religion. That kind of negativity and fear gets programmed into the deep recess of our subconscious from early childhood.

There's a simple explanation... woo. It has gone by many names, but the named woo is not the real woo. If you grasp the woo it will simply slip through your fingers.

Those are actually paraphrased from descriptions of Tao, but Tao is woo. Taoism has it's own wu, but that's not the real woo either... except when it is.

It is simple, but not easy to find, no matter what the name is.

A great deal gets programmed into the subconscious as a child. There are some theories that as babies start developing, they selectively work on the neural pathways that offer feedback to the five senses rather than any 6th sense. It's a survival thing, but aversion to the topic is also socially enforced in most Western cultures if you retain it long enough to express the experience to others. At some point in early development dreams are probably indistinguishable from the rest of reality because there is no frame of reference. That could mean we're all little shamans when we pop out of the womb, neither dreaming nor awake.

Babies might all be tripping balls.

I won't digress too much, for now.

[Nugget]

A great deal gets programmed into the subconscious as a child. There are some theories that as babies start developing, they selectively work on the neural pathways that offer feedback to the five senses rather than any 6th sense. It's a survival thing, but aversion to the topic is also socially enforced in most Western cultures if you retain it long enough to express the experience to others. At some point in early development dreams are probably indistinguishable from the rest of reality because there is no frame of reference. That could mean we're all little shamans when we pop out of the womb, neither dreaming nor awake.

Our ancestors relied on all of the senses we have now, that were more highly developed. 'If you don't use it you'll lose it' comes to mind.

I read once (long before the internet) we have all of the olafactory aparatus that would allow us to smell as well as a wolf does but most have become inactive due to not being used. Same with cones in our vision and hearing; unsed they atrophied. I don't know if any of that's true or not, I just found it something interesting to consider.

I do know it's been scientificly proven babies are born relying on senses that they lose growing up in a secure environment onece they become moblie.They know their mothers' voice and smell from the moment they're born and can sense the emotions of others. Babies always cry when someone like 'Aunt Gurty' holds them-and 'Aunt Gurty' never met a baby she liked.

It's been my observation that often when an infant isn't raised in a secure, lvoving environment the reliance on their emotional sense often becomes hieghtened, as does their ability to 'read the room' via facial expressions, body language, etc. I think these are the children that are most likely to grow into adults who embrace the paranormal aspect of the world we live in.

I find myself wondering if newborn's live in two worlds the first tow or three months of likfe. You'll often see them intently watching something only they can see, often with smiles, laughter and excitement. All my life infants have looke at something above the top of my head that only they can see. They 'coo', wave their arms and kick their feet with the biggest smiles on their face. I've no idea what they see, but it's started many a conversation with total strangers when out in public. 

One of my favorite off the wall theories to consider is how we possibly have some sort of 'firewall' in our brains, for lack of a better term. Our brains-our entire physology so closely mirrors some sort of super computer, imagine what would happen if all 'programs' could be accessed? 
A PC has basic programs running silently behind the scenes to keep things flowing smoothly. If they weren't seperated into layers I don't think things would work smoothly. If one program were to get crossed with another you could end up with information overload and a big crash.

Maybe we're not capable of integrating all the secrets of life in our brains-until we connect with a maiframe we've yet to discover.

Or maybe my imagination is just glitching again....

[NobodySpecial268]

Perhaps mind reading can be done on asubconscious level without people even being aware they do it. 

And don't some wives keep quiet about it, and poor hubby doesn't know where that "good idea" came from . . . : )

Scientist have recently proven genetic memory is actually a thing and can last up to three generations, possibly longer. I've thought since I was 20 something that our DNA carrying memoriess might play into past life memories.

I'm of similar thought. Though, I would suggest that the genetic memory would only be the memory of up until the child was born. That is to say that post birth memories of the ancestors would not be included in the heirs.

If there is something such as reincarnation for the individual, then we must ask; whose memories?

The reincarnating soul memories would not be the same as the ancestral memories of the body.

I'ma firm believer there's a simple explaination for all things woo, but we'll never find the common demonitaor as long as scientists refuse to believe it's real and give it any serious study. Most of what thy're learning is accidental and far from what they were originally studying.

I always look for more reasonable forces than ghosts and demons. Too many people have that 'sixth sense, yet never develop it because it's assotiated with the devil in organize religion. That kind of negativity and fear gets programmed into the deep recess of our subconscious from early childhood.

Studying beliefs about the Creator from long before we were given an organized christian belief system can be an eye-opener for people who don't live their life coming from a subconscious fear base.

Aye, there are prejudices, and a lot of ignorance.

Isn't it funny how most physical demonic/paranormal displays happen in a home where a teenager resides? Hmm....a component of unbridled raging hormones are running rampant?

Well now, since you mention "unbridled raging hormones". That fits in with the principal of the 'moth and the candle'. Everyone enjoys an open fire on a cold night, we even feed the fire with wood.

With astral oriented Beings, those who perceive emotions as we do warmth, might enjoy sitting near an emotional person. They might even stoke the fire. Our emotional teenagers are like bright fires in that regard. First love, first broken heart - the life of a teenager might be the astral equivalent of a Mills and Boon romance story for them.

Loneliness is a very loud emotion that is broadcast. Why do small children have invisible friends?

They usually grow out of the invisible friends when they go to school. The kid isn't as lonely then.

Sometimes it is just a case of a bad house location. In the Irish fairy lore, people are warned not to build homes upon nor disturb the Fairy Roads.

There's a crossover of what we humans KNOW we can do and what we REALLY are capable of. One book even says we can 'move a mountain' if we have enough faith. We can even heal the sick! 
What is 'faith' if not belief that the impossible is possible.

AI has the possibility of cracking the code on the 'paranormal' and totally change the direction of humanity much like the wheel and the industrial age has.

Artificial Intelligence? Why build an expensive contraption to replace what people can do naturally?

[Nugget]

I'm of similar thought. Though, I would suggest that the genetic memory would only be the memory of up until the child was born. That is to say that post birth memories of the ancestors would not be included in the heirs.

Actually, recent studies have shown genetic memory is present for the life of the mice they studied and passed down for the three generations they've followed so far.

As far as 'soul' memoty goes, it ties in with Carl Jung's theiry on collective consciouness. All thoughts are in the universe for anyone to tune in to. It works on the same principle as when you walk into a room full of people and instantly 'feel' the tension.

Empatic (emotionally sensitive) people hve to learn to diferentiate between whether it's endogenous or exogenously caused.

I'm still 'iffy' on whether reincarnation is an actual thing or not. It makes sense that we are her to perfect our state of being in order to rise to a higher level of consciousness where a body is no longer needed on the one hand, but makes no sense at all when examined from another angle. It does give me plenty of mental exercise, tho.....

[Ksihkehe]

Actually, recent studies have shown genetic memory is present for the life of the mice they studied and passed down for the three generations they've followed so far.

As far as 'soul' memoty goes, it ties in with Carl Jung's theiry on collective consciouness. All thoughts are in the universe for anyone to tune in to. It works on the same principle as when you walk into a room full of people and instantly 'feel' the tension.

Empatic (emotionally sensitive) people hve to learn to diferentiate between whether it's endogenous or exogenously caused.

I'm still 'iffy' on whether reincarnation is an actual thing or not. It makes sense that we are her to perfect our state of being in order to rise to a higher level of consciousness where a body is no longer needed on the one hand, but makes no sense at all when examined from another angle. It does give me plenty of mental exercise, tho.....

I think the two of your are covering two different definitions of memory. You are referring to a more general memory that isn't unique and detailed, rather subconscious and general. The mice showed fear response to a smell their parents had smelled while they were repeatedly shocked. It's the product of a repetition of behaviors. It's pretty interesting, aside from harming mice to figure it out.

Nobodyspecial, I believe, is speaking about the specific and detailed memory of unique individual consciousness.

Nugget's little nugglettes might remember to avoid farmer John because of your constant exposure to his scent when he came to get dinner... but they will not remember this forum post.

An interesting question about epigenetics, which is sort of where the mice studies lead, is can this also be specifically induced using something like hypnosis on a human. The studies are using trauma, but from my knowledge of altered states and hypnosis I believe things can be remembered at the subconscious level without the physiological trauma response. I would say that the hormone release and physiological response during fear events is actually akin to an altered state. It disrupts the chatter and background thoughts going on when it happens, sharpens focus, and sometimes results in physical or cognitive feats the experiencer did not even believe themselves capable of. Of course, when it's a real time traumatic event, sometimes people freeze or just go sort of bonkers too.

Imagine if once per generation, just prior to starting a family, you could undergo a sessions of hypnosis or even listen to something during your sleep and your offspring would be predisposed to a few key healthy behaviors or avoiding unhealthy ones. It would be naturally, literally somewhere in their DNA. If it can do that, can it also improve cognition or muscle strength or other things? I don't know. It's an interesting thought though... sort of an epigenetic CRISPR. The deboonkers would get their panties in a bunch and call it pseudoscience, though I haven't even presented a true hypothesis, but it's almost implicit in existing data that if it were done properly it's entirely possible. It's arguable not just possible, but highly probably. The real questions are how much can it do, how quickly can it be induced, and what changes can it make.

I'm digressing again, but you're talking about different memories and both are interesting to me. The distinction is important though.

(ETA: After writing this I immediately thought of MK Ultra. I haven't checked details, but I understand that many believe that they used the abuse along with drugs or other means to make people inadvertent sleeper operatives. I think Manson is often called a product of MK and maybe the Reagan would-be assassin? I think that TPTB would like people to believe that kind of thing is necessary. It's not. It's a lie that simple hypnosis can't make you do things that you wouldn't do if you were awake and aware. There are levels, techniques. The drugs and trauma and the weirdos it produces are a good distraction from the real deal. The MK model is using a monkey wrench for brain surgery. Sure you may remove the tumor, but what's the point when the brain is no longer useful. It's better for the public to believe these people will be recognizably insane after being MK'ed, but in reality they could be anyone. I don't know how practical it is or if it's used at all. Seems there are plenty of people already inclined to do bad things without being brainwashed.)

[NobodySpecial268]

(evil grin) let's throw a thrird and rather controversial memory into the mix.

In the 1950s / 1960s Dr. James V. McConnell demonstrated that flatworms could be trained by turning on a light and delivering an electric shock. The flatworms would remember and when just the light was turned on the flatworms panicked. They remembered.

McConnell then demonstrated that this memory could be transferred to another flatworm. Flatworms are cannibals, so McConnell diced up a trained flatworm and fed it to an untrained flatworm. The cannibals panicked when the light was turned on.

McConnell, by the way, was the target of Theodore "the Unabomber" Kaczynski’s 10th bomb for his psychological work.

Read more at The Verge - Memory in the Flesh.

But yes, I count two memories in the human. The personal memory (including reincarnation) and the body's ancestral memories. Both as separate things.

[NobodySpecial268]

Actually, recent studies have shown genetic memory is present for the life of the mice they studied and passed down for the three generations they've followed so far.

As far as 'soul' memoty goes, it ties in with Carl Jung's theiry on collective consciouness. All thoughts are in the universe for anyone to tune in to. It works on the same principle as when you walk into a room full of people and instantly 'feel' the tension.

Empatic (emotionally sensitive) people hve to learn to diferentiate between whether it's endogenous or exogenously caused.

I'm still 'iffy' on whether reincarnation is an actual thing or not. It makes sense that we are her to perfect our state of being in order to rise to a higher level of consciousness where a body is no longer needed on the one hand, but makes no sense at all when examined from another angle. It does give me plenty of mental exercise, tho.....

I'm a bit iffy on the idea of "soul" as it is generally spoken of. A memory that lasts across lives would perhaps count as "soul". Studying the deceased and other non-humans in that realm, the "collective" of Jung doesn't really fit. Maybe it is there, but I have a hunch Jung was paving the way for something in the future. In practice, memories are individual and ancestral. The memories of the fae are generally ancestral. But that is because they reproduce by division, which humans don't. A fascinating study is the life of the fae. But I will leave that for another thread one day.

[Nugget]

"Atoms themselves do not differ fundamentally between human and nonhuman matter. The structure of atoms, including their electron shells and the behavior of electrons, is consistent across all matter. However, the way atoms combine to form molecules and compounds can differ significantly between human and nonhuman organisms.

In human beings, the fundamental difference lies not in the atoms themselves but in the complexity of the mental processes that can be performed. Humans have the ability to think abstractly and contemplate universals, which are concepts that have no material instantiation, whereas nonhuman animals do not possess this capability.

This distinction is not due to the atoms themselves but rather to the organization and complexity of the biological systems and neural networks that are constructed from these atoms."

Which makes me wonder if what we believe to be our soul is just a different expression of atoms. Maybe with a little tweeking we can come back as Giant Redwood.

Do control how atoms join together and express themselves, or does some Higher authority? It doesn't seem to be a random throw of the dice....

[NobodySpecial268]

"Atoms themselves do not differ fundamentally between human and nonhuman matter. The structure of atoms, including their electron shells and the behavior of electrons, is consistent across all matter. However, the way atoms combine to form molecules and compounds can differ significantly between human and nonhuman organisms.

In human beings, the fundamental difference lies not in the atoms themselves but in the complexity of the mental processes that can be performed. Humans have the ability to think abstractly and contemplate universals, which are concepts that have no material instantiation, whereas nonhuman animals do not possess this capability.

This distinction is not due to the atoms themselves but rather to the organization and complexity of the biological systems and neural networks that are constructed from these atoms."

Which makes me wonder if what we believe to be our soul is just a different expression of atoms. Maybe with a little tweeking we can come back as Giant Redwood.

Do control how atoms join together and express themselves, or does some Higher authority? It doesn't seem to be a random throw of the dice....

Water is said to retain a memory of what has been dissolved in it. A lot of work has been done in this area. I think it will be found that the memory of living things lays in water. For the human, deceased and alive, the formation of memory has a lot in common with the crystallisation process of water. Like a snowflake. Another thread for the future : )

But that does not neccessarily mean that all living memory is water based.