Ukraine vs Russia: Who has the moral high ground?

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I made many on topic posts, in fact I wrote more about the topic in that thread than anyone else (including you) by far. Sure, around page 6 the discussion went off topic a bit but that's not just on me, and we ended up bringing it back at your request.

Either way, you're behaving like a 12 year old. Grow up.

Well, sounds like I'm getting to you, good. You should see my 2-year act. just a couple more pages and I'll be through.

Why not report me to the mods?

[Ksihkehe]

Catch 22 I believe, until I get moderated at least.

I don't moderate for content unless it's illegal or spam, so don't expect to hear from me on it. I hadn't even clicked on this thread until late last night.

This OP is several paragraphs away from the minimal expectations most people have for a serious discussion on complex geopolitical issues. If they get to 8 pages on it they should send you a fruit basket or thank-you card.

I determined a couple years ago that there's not a single meaningful thing a statist EU bootlicker on the Internet has to say about Ukraine and Russia that wasn't already said within the first week of the invasion. It's just a been a stream of blind hatred for anyone that disagrees with their imaginary invasion of western Europe bullshit or brings up the CIA coup and years of Zelenskyy bombing his own citizens.

[TokenLiberal]

I don't moderate for content unless it's illegal or spam, so don't expect to hear from me on it. I hadn't even clicked on this thread until late last night.

This OP is several paragraphs away from the minimal expectations most people have for a serious discussion on complex geopolitical issues. If they get to 8 pages on it they should send you a fruit basket or thank-you card.

I determined a couple years ago that there's not a single meaningful thing a statist EU bootlicker on the Internet has to say about Ukraine and Russia that wasn't already said within the first week of the invasion. It's just a been a stream of blind hatred for anyone that disagrees with their imaginary invasion of western Europe bullshit or brings up the CIA coup and years of Zelenskyy bombing his own citizens.

So you think it's reasonable to rely solely on Russian state media when learning about the war?

[Michigan Swampbuck]

I must have been mistaken and apologize for believing you are a troll Token Liberal. I'll lay off now. But admittedly, you seemed to fit the bill to a tee with how you responded, at least to me.

Entirely my bad. The only excuse I have is that after I left ATS and joined other discussion boards, I was getting some raw treatment from real trolls. The mods, even the owner of one board, were no help. The smaller boards don't want to lose membership, I guess. I was testing this board as much as I was messing with you.

Continue, please, I will stop with my immature antics and let it go now. Besides, from my recent research into paid troll farms, the trolls get paid by the number of responses they get. So, better I restrain my posts if I really believe someone is a paid troll.

[TokenLiberal]

Thanks. I've dealt with my share of trolls. The way to recognize them imo is by how little effort they put into their posts, and by how much they seem to like personal attacks.

[Michigan Swampbuck]

Thanks. I've dealt with my share of trolls. The way to recognize them imo is by how little effort they put into their posts, and by how much they seem to like personal attacks.

This was mentioned in my recent research on the subject, at least about troll farms in third-world countries. I will no longer go off topic about this and continue to derail your thread. No need now, thanks.

[NobodySpecial268]

On the subject of morals . . .

This footage was taken by journalists on a train in Kiev.




--------------------------------------------

ETA: The footage shows Macron, Starmer, and Merz acting rather suspiciously. The video alleges that Merz hides a cocaine spoon, and Macron hides a 'baggie of white powder'.

Merz, by the way, was appointed chairman of BlackRock Germany in 2016. BlackRock itself is heavily investing in the reconstruction of Ukraine.

These are the people who are leaders of "the coalition of the willing"pumping money into Ukraine to continue the conflict when everyone else wants to end it, including Trump.

My own position is: One does not need to examine the high moral ground when the moral low grounds speak for itself.

[Ksihkehe]

So you think it's reasonable to rely solely on Russian state media when learning about the war?

Speaking as a member:

Thank you for your effort to prove my point about having nothing new to say, much appreciated.

Your ridiculous insinuation, which is a very deceptive misrepresentation of what I said, reveals more about you than it does about me. It would appear that, in your mind, anything that doesn't come from an EU statist bootlicker is Russian state media? That would literally be an implicit part of any logical process that concludes my statement was anywhere close to your ridiculous suggestion.

You frequently use these deceptive rhetorical devices. It's indicative of low character. The alternative is that you're ignorant of what it is you're doing and how wildly illogical your conclusion was. If you do know exactly what it is you're doing... you should just stop. While it may feel good in the moment to engage in histrionics, it's off-putting to others and isn't a healthy way for you to get attention.

Posts like this don't trigger any sort of emotion for me and I won't be baited into engaging with this irrelevant tangent of your OP topic. I will point out deceptive behavior when I see it though and I can elaborate more on the kinds of people that are routine users of those tactics.

Speaking purely as a moderator:

If you make a habit of posting meaningless, deceptive, and/or low effort drivel like this to bait people or be disruptive, I will eventually consider it spam and treat it accordingly. This just isn't a meaningful post, is very deceptive, and relies entirely on an emotional response to your accusation. If you don't understand why deception is wrong then you need lots of further nannying that I'm not going to give you. It's rather ironic that I need to say any of this in a thread where you're trying to establish the moral superiority of your political beliefs, is it not?

I must have been mistaken and apologize for believing you are a troll Token Liberal. I'll lay off now. But admittedly, you seemed to fit the bill to a tee with how you responded, at least to me.

Entirely my bad. The only excuse I have is that after I left ATS and joined other discussion boards, I was getting some raw treatment from real trolls. The mods, even the owner of one board, were no help. The smaller boards don't want to lose membership, I guess. I was testing this board as much as I was messing with you.

Continue, please, I will stop with my immature antics and let it go now. Besides, from my recent research into paid troll farms, the trolls get paid by the number of responses they get. So, better I restrain my posts if I really believe someone is a paid troll.

I don't think anyone expects or even wants this site to get super big, so keeping numbers up at the cost of allowing problem posters is definitely not on the agenda.

The premise is that adults can engage in rigorous discussion without being censored or nannied. Adults can choose where they post and who they reply to. If somebody is trolling then it is best practice not to give them attention, but there are plenty of people that delight in engaging with trolls. If there's back and forth, then I assume both parties are willingly engaging in the exchange. Nobody is forcing anyone to reply. In chit chat threads nobody really cares that much usually and they often range widely, but in the other forums the OP should be mindful of engaging with nonsense.

I perhaps didn't elaborate on my previous mention of spam enough. As I said at the bottom on the above reply, the kind of deceptive emotional bait they tried to use on me is just spam. If people respond to it and engage with it on its merits, then it's not really spam anymore... then they're having a conversation with a troll. The OP can decrease their chances of being mistaken for a troll by not using tactics that trolls use, but they have thus far refused to do so. That's on them.

If somebody is spamming your thread, or any thread, they will have their posts removed. If they keep doing it their account will be removed. I'm not a meter maid out looking for violations to cite people on though. There's a report button and I'm not going to be very tolerant of spam. Harassment, deception, baiting... those are not legitimate posts, they're spam, assuming nobody is feeding them replies. Off-topic can usually be handled politely by the OP and things can get moving in the right direction, but if it's persistent then it's spam.

If you were concerned that your serious discussion threads are open season for people to trash here, that will not be the case. If you feel it's happening, report it.

[TokenLiberal]

Speaking as a member:

Thank you for your effort to prove my point about having nothing new to say, much appreciated.

No one here is going to have anything new to say about this war. Are you going to pretend to have an actual original thought? I'd love to hear it then.

It has long been clear that the majority here doesn't care about what I have to say, so I'm not going to waste my time unless someone asks me an actual question. I posted the gist of my position before. As I said to MSB before, if you want me to explain something, just ask.

Your ridiculous insinuation, which is a very deceptive misrepresentation of what I said, reveals more about you than it does about me. It would appear that, in your mind, anything that doesn't come from an EU statist bootlicker is Russian state media? That would literally be an implicit part of any logical process that concludes my statement was anywhere close to your ridiculous suggestion.

You frequently use these deceptive rhetorical devices. It's indicative of low character. The alternative is that you're ignorant of what it is you're doing and how wildly illogical your conclusion was. If you do know exactly what it is you're doing... you should just stop. While it may feel good in the moment to engage in histrionics, it's off-putting to others and isn't a healthy way for you to get attention.

Posts like this don't trigger any sort of emotion for me and I won't be baited into engaging with this irrelevant tangent of your OP topic. I will point out deceptive behavior when I see it though and I can elaborate more on the kinds of people that are routine users of those tactics.

Speaking purely as a moderator:

If you make a habit of posting meaningless, deceptive, and/or low effort drivel like this to bait people or be disruptive, I will eventually consider it spam and treat it accordingly. This just isn't a meaningful post, is very deceptive, and relies entirely on an emotional response to your accusation. If you don't understand why deception is wrong then you need lots of further nannying that I'm not going to give you. It's rather ironic that I need to say any of this in a thread where you're trying to establish the moral superiority of your political beliefs, is it not?

It was a genuine question. Let me explain. You wrote

I determined a couple years ago that there's not a single meaningful thing a statist EU bootlicker on the Internet has to say about Ukraine and Russia that wasn't already said within the first week of the invasion. It's just a been a stream of blind hatred for anyone that disagrees with their imaginary invasion of western Europe bullshit or brings up the CIA coup and years of Zelenskyy bombing his own citizens.

The person who disagreed with me in this thread is the one who brought up Russian state media as their source, and then went on to justify his reliance on Russian state media as the source for learning about the war. By suggesting that my rejection of their sources is just "blind hatred" and therefore not reasonable, you were implicitly (rather, I inferred it) rejecting my position that relying solely on Russian state media is bad. See how I got there?

I know it's all suggestion and inference, that's why I asked you a question to clarify. Apparently, you don't think it's reasonable to rely solely on Russian state media. Great, we agree. I guess you weren't talking about me, then, when you made your point about "statist EU bootlickers" and their "stream of blind hatred for anyone that disagrees with [...]".

If you were talking about me, and your judgment of my character isn't based on the disagreement between me and NobodySpecial, then what is it based on? Where is this "blind hatred for anyone that disagrees", not relating to NobodySpecial? Where have I expressed it?

Not only have your posts been nothing but personal attacks, you even played your moderator card. Another pathetic display. If anyone is showing "blind hatred" here, it's you.