Nazca mummies - debunking the debunkers

[Ksihkehe]

I debated between "Disclosure" and "Cover Ups" with neither necessarily being entirely accurate. There is no evidence that these are extraterrestrial nor that there is an official cover-up. Instead we have atypical humanoid remains (of unknown origin) and pseudo-skeptic social/media coverage (which conflates two separate sets of evidence). I landed on "Cover Ups" though the immediate intent to cover it up isn't certain. What is certain is that skepticism for the sake of skepticism, without through analysis of all evidence, is very much part of modern pop-science culture. It's what might be considered a soft cover-up that applies to anything that deviates from a narrow band of what is considered "The Science".

The saga of the Nazca mummies is a still developing story. If you've seen it, then it's likely that you only saw part of it.

First, the story according to MSM outlets.
CBS News on the presentation to Mexican Congress.

Snopes on "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien."

The story according to the MSM is that the alleged mummies were, in fact, dolls. This appears to be accurate based on their reporting and at one time appeared to be the only story... a hoax. They're crude, obvious not anything that was once an ambulatory living creature. This is clear from the imaging, if not from just using your eyes. How this was ever presumed to be real, under close scrutiny, I'll never understand.    

It does appear to be real in the sense that it is an artifact, recovered in Peru, from the time claimed (minus a huge asterisk when anything is carbon dated). That is, somebody took the time to create these tridactly dolls with enlongated heads, crafted with an assortment of different bones. There are bits of material that have been called implants, things they've called eggs, but just looking at the imaging of the "skeletons" it's clear that these are not biologically viable. They were never alive. Any civilization capable of creating artificial beings wouldn't be making them as crude as these dolls. They are clearly not evidence of alien life, giving Snopes their much desires "False".

The "real" Nazca mummies, that haven't been widely addressed in normal press outlets and often confused by those independents on various platforms, are a much different story. The dolls provided a wonderful excuse for pseudo-skeptics to dismiss these larger mummies without providing much in the way of real evidence. It's already been "debunked", they claim, while focusing on artifacts that were obviously crafted. It was either monumentally poor planning to unveil these dolls before the main attraction or intentional muddying of the water.
.
Snopes, in spite of drawing exclusively on the earlier presentations or discoveries to conclude that "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien" is false, did include a picture of one mummy that isn't so easily dismissed as fake. They also have the cover of "alien" to hide behind, but this discovery may be quite significant even without that "alien" attached.    

'Alien mummies' conference takes bizarre turn after a 'pregnant' alien is unveiled
   


Peruvian university declaration on the tridactyl mummies research

The largest body, which we call "Maria", has a size similar to that of a human being, but with notable anatomical differences, among which an elongated skull and the presence of three fingers on both hands and feet stand out. feet. The osteological and imaging analysis of the extremities shows structural harmony and congruence, without evidence of phalangeal mutilation, and rather (evidence of inflammatory sequelae in the dorsal column and feet), except in the case of the smallest body, which we have called "wawita".

Metallurgical analysis, carried out by scanning electron microscopy (SEM), of a metallic pectoral implant revealed an important finding. It was determined that the implant is composed of an alloy of several metals, with osmium being the predominant element. It is relevant to note that osmium is an element that was officially discovered by Smithson Tennant and William Hyde Wollaston in 1803. Due to its electrical properties, osmium is used in the manufacture of some electronic devices and in the production of sensors. Additionally, the microscopic study through optical metallography has revealed the existence of a matrix of microstructures with microporosities and microinclusions in the implant.

Biometric Morpho-Anatomical Characterization and Dating of The Antiquity of A Tridactyl Humanoid Specimen Regarding The Case of Nasca-Peru -
  137+n5+RGSA+ING.pdf (Size: 645.08 KB / Downloads: 1)

I'm not going to review each bit of data as it's still early. More access needs to be gained, more testing done. What seems to be beyond the realm of possible fakery is that these are humanoid mummies with implants containing materials that would be considered out-of-place artifacts (OOParts). To me their physiology appears different than humans, but not aberrations of human genetics. That is, these aren't just genetic mutations divergent from the same exact genetic lineage as the humans we expect to have been living in Peru at the time. It seems distinct.

What about the dolls?

The dolls, I would suggest, are dolls. They were created either by humans that knew these beings as gifts or as effigies. They may have been made as burial decorations. It's hard to tell, but I don't understand why a bunch of people that allegedly are experts haven't come up with this basic and easy explanation for the dolls. They're literally dolls, exactly like that figurines found in other ancient burial sites or in your daughter's bedroom. They aren't hoaxes or alien corpses. They're made in the image of the remains they were discovered locally to. WTF was going on in Peru, both myself and Giorgio Tsoukalos want to know.

Giorgio probably leans aliens, but I'm leaning pre-diluvian survivors. Some may believe these are not mutually exclusive and I think some very good arguments for that will eventually come to the forefront.

Eventually, we'll have to begin talking about why there are cities on top of mountains, why certain locations have human history going back much further than more hospitable regions, and why fragile marine fossils are found to be locally ubiquitous in areas thousands of miles from the nearest oceans. The great "floods" of history are starting to look as though they are oceanic displacements, which would require a rethinking of "The Science". Kicking and screaming, the academics will eventually have to come along.

I'm happy to discuss details, but leave it to the reader to decide which might interest them. I'll look at those sections more carefully and do my best to participate. For now, it's not very exciting for me. This background may prove helpful if they do become exciting, as a primer for those new to the topic.

[MykeNukem]

I debated between "Disclosure" and "Cover Ups" with neither necessarily being entirely accurate. There is no evidence that these are extraterrestrial nor that there is an official cover-up. Instead we have atypical humanoid remains (of unknown origin) and pseudo-skeptic social/media coverage (which conflates two separate sets of evidence). I landed on "Cover Ups" though the immediate intent to cover it up isn't certain. What is certain is that skepticism for the sake of skepticism, without through analysis of all evidence, is very much part of modern pop-science culture. It's what might be considered a soft cover-up that applies to anything that deviates from a narrow band of what is considered "The Science".

The saga of the Nazca mummies is a still developing story. If you've seen it, then it's likely that you only saw part of it.

First, the story according to MSM outlets.
CBS News on the presentation to Mexican Congress.

Snopes on "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien."

The story according to the MSM is that the alleged mummies were, in fact, dolls. This appears to be accurate based on their reporting and at one time appeared to be the only story... a hoax. They're crude, obvious not anything that was once an ambulatory living creature. This is clear from the imaging, if not from just using your eyes. How this was ever presumed to be real, under close scrutiny, I'll never understand.

It does appear to be real in the sense that it is an artifact, recovered in Peru, from the time claimed (minus a huge asterisk when anything is carbon dated). That is, somebody took the time to create these tridactly dolls with enlongated heads, crafted with an assortment of different bones. There are bits of material that have been called implants, things they've called eggs, but just looking at the imaging of the "skeletons" it's clear that these are not biologically viable. They were never alive. Any civilization capable of creating artificial beings wouldn't be making them as crude as these dolls. They are clearly not evidence of alien life, giving Snopes their much desires "False".

The "real" Nazca mummies, that haven't been widely addressed in normal press outlets and often confused by those independents on various platforms, are a much different story. The dolls provided a wonderful excuse for pseudo-skeptics to dismiss these larger mummies without providing much in the way of real evidence. It's already been "debunked", they claim, while focusing on artifacts that were obviously crafted. It was either monumentally poor planning to unveil these dolls before the main attraction or intentional muddying of the water.
.
Snopes, in spite of drawing exclusively on the earlier presentations or discoveries to conclude that "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien" is false, did include a picture of one mummy that isn't so easily dismissed as fake. They also have the cover of "alien" to hide behind, but this discovery may be quite significant even without that "alien" attached.

'Alien mummies' conference takes bizarre turn after a 'pregnant' alien is unveiled
[/url]


[url=https://community.ubiquityuniversity.org/posts/peruvian-university-declaration-on-the-tridactyl-mummies-research]Peruvian university declaration on the tridactyl mummies research


Biometric Morpho-Anatomical Characterization and Dating of The Antiquity of A Tridactyl Humanoid Specimen Regarding The Case of Nasca-Peru -

I'm not going to review each bit of data as it's still early. More access needs to be gained, more testing done. What seems to be beyond the realm of possible fakery is that these are humanoid mummies with implants containing materials that would be considered out-of-place artifacts (OOParts). To me their physiology appears different than humans, but not aberrations of human genetics. That is, these aren't just genetic mutations divergent from the same exact genetic lineage as the humans we expect to have been living in Peru at the time. It seems distinct.

What about the dolls?

The dolls, I would suggest, are dolls. They were created either by humans that knew these beings as gifts or as effigies. They may have been made as burial decorations. It's hard to tell, but I don't understand why a bunch of people that allegedly are experts haven't come up with this basic and easy explanation for the dolls. They're literally dolls, exactly like that figurines found in other ancient burial sites or in your daughter's bedroom. They aren't hoaxes or alien corpses. They're made in the image of the remains they were discovered locally to. WTF was going on in Peru, both myself and Giorgio Tsoukalos want to know.

Giorgio probably leans aliens, but I'm leaning pre-diluvian survivors. Some may believe these are not mutually exclusive and I think some very good arguments for that will eventually come to the forefront.

Eventually, we'll have to begin talking about why there are cities on top of mountains, why certain locations have human history going back much further than more hospitable regions, and why fragile marine fossils are found to be locally ubiquitous in areas thousands of miles from the nearest oceans. The great "floods" of history are starting to look as though they are oceanic displacements, which would require a rethinking of "The Science". Kicking and screaming, the academics will eventually have to come along.

I'm happy to discuss details, but leave it to the reader to decide which might interest them. I'll look at those sections more carefully and do my best to participate. For now, it's not very exciting for me. This background may prove helpful if they do become exciting, as a primer for those new to the topic.

Very interesting.

I'll go through this tomorrow after my class.

[19Bones79]

I debated between "Disclosure" and "Cover Ups" with neither necessarily being entirely accurate. There is no evidence that these are extraterrestrial nor that there is an official cover-up. Instead we have atypical humanoid remains (of unknown origin) and pseudo-skeptic social/media coverage (which conflates two separate sets of evidence). I landed on "Cover Ups" though the immediate intent to cover it up isn't certain. What is certain is that skepticism for the sake of skepticism, without through analysis of all evidence, is very much part of modern pop-science culture. It's what might be considered a soft cover-up that applies to anything that deviates from a narrow band of what is considered "The Science".

The saga of the Nazca mummies is a still developing story. If you've seen it, then it's likely that you only saw part of it.

First, the story according to MSM outlets.
CBS News on the presentation to Mexican Congress.

Snopes on "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien."

The story according to the MSM is that the alleged mummies were, in fact, dolls. This appears to be accurate based on their reporting and at one time appeared to be the only story... a hoax. They're crude, obvious not anything that was once an ambulatory living creature. This is clear from the imaging, if not from just using your eyes. How this was ever presumed to be real, under close scrutiny, I'll never understand.

It does appear to be real in the sense that it is an artifact, recovered in Peru, from the time claimed (minus a huge asterisk when anything is carbon dated). That is, somebody took the time to create these tridactly dolls with enlongated heads, crafted with an assortment of different bones. There are bits of material that have been called implants, things they've called eggs, but just looking at the imaging of the "skeletons" it's clear that these are not biologically viable. They were never alive. Any civilization capable of creating artificial beings wouldn't be making them as crude as these dolls. They are clearly not evidence of alien life, giving Snopes their much desires "False".

The "real" Nazca mummies, that haven't been widely addressed in normal press outlets and often confused by those independents on various platforms, are a much different story. The dolls provided a wonderful excuse for pseudo-skeptics to dismiss these larger mummies without providing much in the way of real evidence. It's already been "debunked", they claim, while focusing on artifacts that were obviously crafted. It was either monumentally poor planning to unveil these dolls before the main attraction or intentional muddying of the water.
.
Snopes, in spite of drawing exclusively on the earlier presentations or discoveries to conclude that "A corpse found in Nazca, Peru, is that of an alien" is false, did include a picture of one mummy that isn't so easily dismissed as fake. They also have the cover of "alien" to hide behind, but this discovery may be quite significant even without that "alien" attached.

'Alien mummies' conference takes bizarre turn after a 'pregnant' alien is unveiled
[/url]


[url=https://community.ubiquityuniversity.org/posts/peruvian-university-declaration-on-the-tridactyl-mummies-research]Peruvian university declaration on the tridactyl mummies research


Biometric Morpho-Anatomical Characterization and Dating of The Antiquity of A Tridactyl Humanoid Specimen Regarding The Case of Nasca-Peru -

I'm not going to review each bit of data as it's still early. More access needs to be gained, more testing done. What seems to be beyond the realm of possible fakery is that these are humanoid mummies with implants containing materials that would be considered out-of-place artifacts (OOParts). To me their physiology appears different than humans, but not aberrations of human genetics. That is, these aren't just genetic mutations divergent from the same exact genetic lineage as the humans we expect to have been living in Peru at the time. It seems distinct.

What about the dolls?

The dolls, I would suggest, are dolls. They were created either by humans that knew these beings as gifts or as effigies. They may have been made as burial decorations. It's hard to tell, but I don't understand why a bunch of people that allegedly are experts haven't come up with this basic and easy explanation for the dolls. They're literally dolls, exactly like that figurines found in other ancient burial sites or in your daughter's bedroom. They aren't hoaxes or alien corpses. They're made in the image of the remains they were discovered locally to. WTF was going on in Peru, both myself and Giorgio Tsoukalos want to know.

Giorgio probably leans aliens, but I'm leaning pre-diluvian survivors. Some may believe these are not mutually exclusive and I think some very good arguments for that will eventually come to the forefront.

Eventually, we'll have to begin talking about why there are cities on top of mountains, why certain locations have human history going back much further than more hospitable regions, and why fragile marine fossils are found to be locally ubiquitous in areas thousands of miles from the nearest oceans. The great "floods" of history are starting to look as though they are oceanic displacements, which would require a rethinking of "The Science". Kicking and screaming, the academics will eventually have to come along.

I'm happy to discuss details, but leave it to the reader to decide which might interest them. I'll look at those sections more carefully and do my best to participate. For now, it's not very exciting for me. This background may prove helpful if they do become exciting, as a primer for those new to the topic.

This is deeply fascinating stuff, great thread!

Not only do I believe that Atlantis and Lemuria once existed, which in itself is enough for any intrepid fan of alternative history, I also believe that knowledge that is closely guarded survived and that it's practical application we unknowingly experience on a daily basis. 

Secret societies and bloodlines have been with us since the dawn of civilizations. 

Civilizations which are on different continents and according to modern experts never came into contact but have similarities across various fields of interest such as myths/religions, architectural design and purpose etc. 

Even in the Bible itself the 'first family' in recorded history ventured far enough to discover kingdoms already in existence. 

If there's continuity of a group of people spanning millennia that never got diluted when they assimilated into other cultures that in itself begs the question of what motivated them to keep that identity so pure even when they pretended to adopt native customs and beliefs in order to function as a cohesive collective below surface level. 

In today's societies democracies give the illusion that bloodlines are inconsequential and yet we have all read that people like Bush and Obama have a common ancestor and that most former US presidents in fact come from the same bloodline. 

You need a clear directive with a motivation so strong that it overrides time itself in order to stay the course towards some far off ideal.

If the above is true, then it should be possible to identify possible groups as possessing far more information and practical knowledge about where we come from as well as where we are going.

These people would not be advertising that fact and they would be in charge of shaping a narrative, the system itself, that keeps people in the dark and distracted (Plato' cave). 

That considerably narrows down the list of groups of people who are capable of such a mind-blowing feat.

[FCD]

I spent a bunch of time working down in Peru, Lima to be exact, back in 2018 and '19. Had a project down there. Got to know a lot of the nationals there (engineers mostly).

Never heard much about the mummies, but did hear quite a bit about the Nazca lines. Most of the Peruvian nationals (on the down-low) seemed to feel the lines were made long after ancient times. It was kind of a wink-wink sort of thing. They all seemed to feel they were made to attract tourist attention back in the 1800's. In fact, a number of them I knew even mentioned several other locations in Peru were people make these designs all the time, even today, but on a smaller scale...sort of a tribute to the people who made the originals.

[Ksihkehe]

I spent a bunch of time working down in Peru, Lima to be exact, back in 2018 and '19.  Had a project down there.  Got to know a lot of the nationals there (engineers mostly).

Never heard much about the mummies, but did hear quite a bit about the Nazca lines.  Most of the Peruvian nationals (on the down-low) seemed to feel the lines were made long after ancient times.  It was kind of a wink-wink sort of thing.  They all seemed to feel they were made to attract tourist attention back in the 1800's.  In fact, a number of them I knew even mentioned several other locations in Peru were people make these designs all the time, even today, but on a smaller scale...sort of a tribute to the people who made the originals.

I've heard similar stories. Not just about the Nazca lines, but anywhere that draws archeology tourism into areas. Fake pottery has been a big one, I think.

I forget who it was, but I was listening to an interview that touched on the lines recently, in passing. They went to see them a long time ago. It was all little local charters. Lots of motivation to create new locations to capture market share.

I don't even know how much real evidence of dating you can get from piles of rock in those conditions. Around here things that have been sitting there for a hundred years might not change much at all after the first few years. There's no extensive year over year growth of plants. It's wind swept. There's scabby brush and course grasses with shallow soils. We have similar conditions to the region of the lines, I believe.

The more I look into things the less I trust any dating that I haven't looked into myself. Even the convincing evidence often has enough room for lots of questions. If somebody discovered convincing evidence the lines were less than two centuries old I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I can't ever not associate the lines with Art Bell.

[FCD]

I've heard similar stories. Not just about the Nazca lines, but anywhere that draws archeology tourism into areas. Fake pottery has been a big one, I think.

I forget who it was, but I was listening to an interview that touched on the lines recently, in passing. They went to see them a long time ago. It was all little local charters. Lots of motivation to create new locations to capture market share.

I don't even know how much real evidence of dating you can get from piles of rock in those conditions. Around here things that have been sitting there for a hundred years might not change much at all after the first few years. There's no extensive year over year growth of plants. It's wind swept. There's scabby brush and course grasses with shallow soils. We have similar conditions to the region of the lines, I believe.

The more I look into things the less I trust any dating that I haven't looked into myself. Even the convincing evidence often has enough room for lots of questions. If somebody discovered convincing evidence the lines were less than two centuries old I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I can't ever not associate the lines with Art Bell.

My colleague's wife is from Peru and her father runs in some pretty elevated political circles in Peru (like way up there) due to his background in copper and other metals mining which is a huge industry in Peru.  The guy is a Civil Engineer by education, and deeply ensconced and highly regarded in the mining world; as a result he's very familiar with the geography, geology and archeological history of the region.  So, many of the folks I referred to above are not just average Joe's on the street, but usually pretty stable (engineering type) folks.  I felt like the assessments they provided were accurate.

One of the topics they brought to my attention was how surprisingly easy it is to create things like the famous 'Nasca lines' in the Peruvian environment.  Despite historians making it seem like these lines were biblically difficult (for dramatic appeal which sells books and plane tickets), the average person can create them with a simple compass and a rake (and some effort of course).  I didn't realize it until I went to Peru on a repeated basis that Peru is one of the most arid countries in the world.  This was totally counterintuitive to me.  In Lima, which sits right on the ocean, you see palm trees and grass, and there's fog about 4 days out of 7, but it rarely ever rains there.  Thus, the terrain, once marked, stays marked for centuries.

I realize none of this relates to the mummies, but it's kind of related to weird stuff of seemingly unknown origin which Peru seems quite a few instances of.

[Ksihkehe]

I realize none of this relates to the mummies, but it's kind of related to weird stuff of seemingly unknown origin which Peru seems quite a few instances of..

I think it's even more arid there than it is here. The plants have a small spurt and melt back into the ground essentially.

The ones we have here were all done by high school graduating classes, I think. They're not nearly as big as the lines, but they were just high school kids doing a project.

They're definitely not engineering or surveying feats. I decided to see if there were any good pictures to illustrate how easy it is to make lines.    
Picture credit

These are not the pyramids or Machu Picchu, by any stretch. A novelty.

I was going to do a thread on the Brazil crop circle that showed up recently and how it looked similar to the center of a hexagonal water mesh. It's more interesting to me than the mummies, but it's also a bit more abstract. Hexagonal water, structured water, sometimes called crystalline water, is found in tiny spaces. It's found in the tubulin structures in the brain. It's a potential source or facilitator for quantum processing, which remains unexplained in our warm wet brains.

I figured mummies had more curb appeal and there was more that people could dig into elsewhere. I'm not that into crop circles either, but found the connection interesting. I've never seen a crop circle with a geometric pattern that immediately made me think of a specific molecular configuration.

[Ksihkehe]

Just messing around with my very simple sketchpad and less than steady hand. The penetrative imaging is from the PDF cited in the OP and the reference image is from The Walters Art Museum. Note that I don't understand their classification as a forgery. It's appears that they are dating it to 3k years ago or so, but also calling it a forgery. I'm just having fun with it.