Wife and I have been working at creating some sourdough from scratch over the past several weeks.  At high altitude, this is more difficult than it may seem.  I failed a couple times, and my wife (the Chef) had to step in to save my bacon, but she wasn't going to save "My" bacon as much as save her own.  So, she started a 2nd starter 

Now, I'm already at a disadvantage because her specialization in Culinary school was "Baking", BUT...like me, she'd never done sourdough either.  So, I thought we might be on even keel (buzzer...wrong!).  I struggled and failed twice.  She took one of my failures and made a perfectly good sourdough starter from it (I think she loves the competition!...and my failure!).

However, now my sourdough starter has "risen" to the occasion and is even outshining hers (not that I have any idea how this happened, mind you!).  She  still rocks at baking bread, far better than I can ever do, but now we are both getting some pretty serious sourdough starters (high altitude ones...which isn't easy).  We've probably studies no less than a thousand recipies...and most of them fail.  Some say this is "Easy!", but to do it right, it's far from "easy"

At the end of the day, why does anyone want sourdough?  Why go to the trouble?  Yes, flavor is one thing, but there's actually a more fundamental reason.  Sourdough replaces yeast.  With sourdough, you don't need regular baking yeast (those little packets, jars or vacuum packs).  Yeast is gone, and to make bread...all you need is sourdough, flour and water.  If you keep the starter going, then all you need is flour and water for bread.

Tonight we did our first sourdough loaf of bread.  Anyone who's ever made bread knows; one of the hardest things of all is to get the "oven spring" (rise) right.  There's lot's of technical words, like "spring", and "crumb" and many others, but suffice to say this loaf turned out fantastic.  Now, granted, I am spoiled.  My wife can bake stuff better than most, but this was different, and even she was both surprised an pleased.

Okay, I know this whole post sounds "woke", and maybe it is, but I'm not "woke" by a country mile (and I think y'all know that), but I do like good bread.  Sourdough bread is at the top of my list.  Being able to make it successfully is not easy, and I don't give a fuck if it's "woke" or not...it's damn good bread!!  I like it, and I'm damn proud of being able to make it decently.

Yes, I'm just rambling.  And, yes, I just thought I'd throw this out there.  And yes, you can call me some sorta 'gleesturbation' 'sackwacker' yariman, or well...whatever!  I'm not!  LOL!

Enjoy!

Tehere's nothing better than sourdough sourdough pancakes! I've made everything from cinnamon rolles to bread to cookies from my starterr back in the day when I still baked.

My last starter was created with nothing more than flour, water and a grape leaf; it captures the natural spores in the air.
I wanted to try t]an old-school starter and it turned out great-but the fruitflies got into it durring canning season.

Sourdough bread is a lot healthier on the digestive system and doesn't cause the blood sugar spikes regular bread does-in moderation, of course. Who doesn't want an extra biscuit with their dinner?

Yeah, that's what all our starters began with, just whole wheat flour and water. We didn't use any of those pre-packaged starters (which I think are kind of a joke anyway). These starters are made from naturally occurring yeasts in the air.

I read an article recently where one sourdough baker travels around the world, and when he goes somewhere he takes a small batch of his starter with him. His intention isn't to bake with sourdough wherever he goes, but rather to expose his starter to different yeasts of different geographical areas. He'll take his starter out and set it outside somewhere in a different country and let it be exposed to the local airborne yeasts in that region.

(11-01-2024, 03:14 AM)FCD Wrote: I read an article recently where one sourdough baker travels around the world, and when he goes somewhere he takes a small batch of his starter with him.  His intention isn't to bake with sourdough wherever he goes, but rather to expose his starter to different yeasts of different geographical areas.  He'll take his starter out and set it outside somewhere in a different country and let it be exposed to the local airborne yeasts in that region.

I noticed that whenever I relocated to a different area! 

In Alaska they would carry their starter in their bag of flour. It was alwso used to chink the gaps in their log cabin walls to keep the cold out.

(10-31-2024, 09:27 PM)FCD Wrote: Wife and I have been working at creating some sourdough from scratch over the past several weeks.  At high altitude, this is more difficult than it may seem.  I failed a couple times, and my wife (the Chef) had to step in to save my bacon, but she wasn't going to save "My" bacon as much as save her own.  So, she started a 2nd starter 

Now, I'm already at a disadvantage because her specialization in Culinary school was "Baking", BUT...like me, she'd never done sourdough either.  So, I thought we might be on even keel (buzzer...wrong!).  I struggled and failed twice.  She took one of my failures and made a perfectly good sourdough starter from it (I think she loves the competition!...and my failure!).

However, now my sourdough starter has "risen" to the occasion and is even outshining hers (not that I have any idea how this happened, mind you!).  She  still rocks at baking bread, far better than I can ever do, but now we are both getting some pretty serious sourdough starters (high altitude ones...which isn't easy).  We've probably studies no less than a thousand recipies...and most of them fail.  Some say this is "Easy!", but to do it right, it's far from "easy"

At the end of the day, why does anyone want sourdough?  Why go to the trouble?  Yes, flavor is one thing, but there's actually a more fundamental reason.  Sourdough replaces yeast.  With sourdough, you don't need regular baking yeast (those little packets, jars or vacuum packs).  Yeast is gone, and to make bread...all you need is sourdough, flour and water.  If you keep the starter going, then all you need is flour and water for bread.

Tonight we did our first sourdough loaf of bread.  Anyone who's ever made bread knows; one of the hardest things of all is to get the "oven spring" (rise) right.  There's lot's of technical words, like "spring", and "crumb" and many others, but suffice to say this loaf turned out fantastic.  Now, granted, I am spoiled.  My wife can bake stuff better than most, but this was different, and even she was both surprised an pleased.

Okay, I know this whole post sounds "woke", and maybe it is, but I'm not "woke" by a country mile (and I think y'all know that), but I do like good bread.  Sourdough bread is at the top of my list.  Being able to make it successfully is not easy, and I don't give a fuck if it's "woke" or not...it's damn good bread!!  I like it, and I'm damn proud of being able to make it decently.

Yes, I'm just rambling.  And, yes, I just thought I'd throw this out there.  And yes, you can call me some sorta 'gleesturbation' 'sackwacker' yariman, or well...whatever!  I'm not!  LOL!

Enjoy!

WTF? No recipe?

I love it, but have never made it.

(11-01-2024, 06:30 PM)MykeNukem Wrote: WTF? No recipe?

I love it, but have never made it.

Okay...here's a recipe for sourdough.  I'm assuming you want the recipe for the sourdough starter, not the bread itself.  It's super easy (or more difficult than you can imagine...I'll explain).

First off; it's almost impossible to fail, but I'd wager that 95%+ people fail the first try...even thought it's impossible to fail (again, I will explain).  Full disclosure; I failed twice at first (even though I didn't realize I'd actually only failed once!).  It's all about patience (something I'm short of).  It's actually amazing how you will swear up and down you've failed when you haven't failed.  There's really only one rule (and not even it is cast in stone).  That rule is...don't use bleached flour.  Read the label.  If it says bleached anywhere on the package, get something else.  The only other rule is weights are important, and measures are almost irrelevant.  Do everything by weight.  You can get a really good digital scale on Amazon for $10 bucks (if you don't have one already); buy one.

Okay, now that we have that out of the way, here goes...

The recipe only has two ingredients, flour and water.  That's it, just flour and water.  You can use any kind of flour you like, just NOT any kind of bleached flour.  Wheat flour actually works really well, and it's easy to get.  Rye flour works best, and makes the best sourdough, but getting rye flour is very difficult (and expensive).  I'd suggest starting with whole wheat flour (unbleached).  A good target protein content is 14%, but anything will work.  A couple decent and widely available flours are Bob's Red Mill and / or King Arthur.  You can get them in just about any grocery store.

About the only other thing you'll need is a container.  A glass jar with straight sides is best.  The (straight) sides are important because you need to be able to scrape the sides (again, I will explain).  Doesn't have to be big, 16oz is fine.   BTW, I'm removing all the bullshit mystery out of this process here.  If you try to look this up on the interwebz, you'll find 75,000 recipes, but they're all missing steps which you will cuss at and learn over time.  What I'm writing here includes these steps.  Another couple handy things to have are a cake spatula (long skinny spatula) and a couple rubber bands. 

Process

1. Weigh the empty jar on your scale and write it down.
   
2.  Measure out 100g of flour and 100g of water (exactly...not 103g of one and 97g of the other, 100g of each)  Weights matter.
   
3.  Combine flour and water in the jar.  Mix thoroughly until there are no remaining lumps.  This is where the long cake spatula comes in handy.  The consistency is like peanut butter, so stirring it isn't easy.
   
4.  Scrape down the sides of the jar (the concoction is sticky).  This is why a straight sided jar is helpful.  Scraping a jar without straight sides, like a canning jar with a shoulder, is a PITA.
   
5.  Cover the jar with a doubled over paper towel and put one of the rubber bands around the jar to hold it in place.
   
6.  Place the other rubber band at the level of the mixture in the jar.  (This won't matter the first couple days, but it will later)
   
7.  On a sheet of paper mark down the day number (starting with #1), the date and the net weight of the mixture and the jar (sans the rubber bands and paper towel).  Also write down the time
   

BOOM!  You're done (...sort of!)

Set the jar in a room temperature place.  On the counter is fine.  Don't listen to the interwebz; anything from about 65F to 80F is fine (lots of people will tell you..."it has to be EXACTLY 77F, or 75F"...bullshit)

On day #2 (same time as day #1) do the following:

1. Weigh the jar and mixture without the rubber bands and the paper towel.  Write it down.  On the 2nd day the weights will probably be the same as the 1st day, but later on they won't.
   
2. Add 60g of flour, and 60g of water to the jar.  Stir until no lumps.  Always weigh the contents.  Weight matters.  Don't try to approximate with measures.
   
3. Weigh the final result (w/o the rubber bands and cover)...and write it down.
   
4. Re cover and set it back on the counter.  Also place the 2nd rubber band at the new level.
   

On day #3 (same time as day #2) do the following:  (now you're going to see why weight matters)

1. Weigh the jar and contents.  Write it down
   
2. Now subtract the weight of the empty jar (that you wrote down at the very beginning).  This gives you the weight of the contents only.  Divide this number by 2 (half).
   
3. Using your spatula (now you're going to start loving this spatula!), remove half of the contents (the number calculated in step #2 above).
   
4. Add 60g of flour, and 60g of water.  Mix thoroughly.  Scrape down the sides of the jar back into the mix (now you're really gonna' be lovin' that cake spatula!)
   
5. Weigh the final result.  Write it down.
   
6. Cover and replace the rubber bands.
   

On days #4 through #8 (and possibly up to day #14) just repeat the steps above (i.e. weigh, remove half, add 60g water+ 60g flour, weigh, scrape, record and re-cover).

You just made sourdough!

Now, here's some tips and things you will see:

• The jar is gonna' get nasty, but the more you scrape the sides with the spatula helps keep it from getting bad.  (You'll probably buy (5) of those cake spatulas now...I did!  They're handy little fuckers!)
  
• On about day #3 you will see the mixture rise after a few hours.  It may even overflow your jar.  Don't sweat it.  This isn't sourdough; it's a war!  This is the yeast killing all the other bad bacteria.  After it rises, it will then fall back to its original level.  Just keep going.  This means it's working!
  
• Depending on the room temperature, by about day #5-6 you should start seeing two things happen each day.  First, the mixture will rise each day.  Second, you will notice the starting weight of your jar is less than the day before (this is the yeast feeding on the flour).  This is a good thing.  This is also why weight is so critically important, down to the gram.
  
• Some days you may see a liquid on top of your mixture.  It looks gross.  Don't sweat it.  This just means your yeast is hungry.  Mix the liquid back into the mixture and feed it with your daily dose of flour and water.  (Note: this is where I thought I failed the first time, but it was just part of the normal process)
  
• Some people say you can go to feeding twice per day when you see liquid.  Screw that, once a day is enough of a PITA; you wanted sourdough...not a wife!  Just stick to once per day.
  
• The part you remove each day is called "discard".  Once your sourdough starter matures (after day #8-ish, you can either toss it, or keep it to either use in a recipe (like pancakes or biscuits), or you can use it to start another sourdough starter if you want.  There's nothing wrong with the discard; it has just been depleted of food, and if you didn't remove it then you'd wind up with more and more each day.
  
• After day #3 your starting weight will be close, but a little less than the finishing weight the day before
  
• If your jar gets too nasty, you can always switch jars.  Just be sure to weigh everything before and after, and write everything down.
  
• As long as you've kept your jar covered the whole time, you shouldn't really ever see mold (the yeast kills it), but if you don't keep the sides of the jar clean mold can form there.  Don't panic.  Just remove it and carry on.  Sourdough is some tough stuff.  It's damn near impossible to screw it up or kill it...even if you space off feeding it; it will recover in a few days.
  
• Patience (my shortcoming) is really key here.  You will swear up and down you've failed, but every sourdough is a little different.  Some take longer.  Yours might take 10 days, or maybe even 14 days.  Don't sweat it.  I threw out my first batch because I freaked out, saw liquid and figured it was bad.  My wife fished it out of the garbage and made her own starter out of it...and now it's better than mine!!!!  (DAMMIT!)   
  

Lastly, if you made it this far without falling asleep...how do you know the sourdough is ready to use?  How much do you use?  How do you use it?  How do you store it?  How often do you feed it when storing it?

All good questions.  I will be happy to cover all of them if you're still interested.  For now, I will end this post, but I will also make a reply which covers how to tell when your sourdough is really "sourdough" and not just a bunch of sticky goo in a jar.

Enjoy!

(11-02-2024, 02:29 AM)FCD Wrote: ...

Lastly, if you made it this far without falling asleep...how do you know the sourdough is ready to use?  How much do you use?  How do you use it?  How do you store it?  How often do you feed it when storing it?

All good questions.  I will be happy to cover all of them if you're still interested.  For now, I will end this post, but I will also make a reply which covers how to tell when your sourdough is really "sourdough" and not just a bunch of sticky goo in a jar.

Enjoy!

Here's how to tell if your sourdough is ready.

First, by about day #8 (up to #14) your sourdough should rise every day.  It will usually fall when stirred initially.  But as time rolls on and it starts becoming true "sourdough" it won't fall anymore when you mix it.  Pretty soon you'll start running out of jar.  This is usually a pretty good indicator you're close.  So, there's basically (3) tests to tell if your sourdough is really "sourdough".  That is, that your sourdough is "ready".

Before covering those three things, it's important to understand what sourdough even is and why people do it.  Fundamentally, sourdough replaces yeast.  So, in a normal bread recipe you have to mix flour, water, salt and some form of yeast (rapid rise, or active, etc).  With sourdough, you don't have to add yeast; the sourdough IS your yeast.  That's the whole point of sourdough (aside from the awesome flavor, which just has no equal!).

Okay, so what are the three things to tell if your sourdough is ready?  Here they are:

1.  It rises, but no longer falls, on a daily basis
   
2. It's sticky.  If you tilt your jar and pull some away from the side, it should stick to the sides and be gummy.
   
3. It "floats".  If you take a partial teaspoon full and put it in a glass of water, the mixture will float on the water.
   

If your mixture meets these (3) criteria, you are golden!  Boom!  You're done!

Now, you do have to maintain your sourdough, but it's not every day, and depending on how you do it, it can be weeks or months.  It will never actually "die"


Here's some fun sourdough trivia:

- Sourdough can last for centuries if kept isolated from other stuff eating it.  Literally centuries.  That's kinda' cool.

- A "Sourdough" was a reference to a person, often gold and silver miners along the western seaboard up into the Yukon territory of Canada and Alaska.  The reason they were called "sourdoughs" is because many of them carried a locket around their neck with a bit of the sourdough starter (just like the one you just created).  This sourdough was their only means to bake bread, biscuits and any other foods requiring a leavening agent, and thus was a precious commodity.  Sourdough is really cool stuff.  Amazing stuff actually.

- OMG...what happens if I use up the last bit of my sourdough???? 

Heh, well, this is one of the coolest things about sourdough.  Say you use every last drop of it (and you forgot to make more each time).  Don't panic; just grab a tiny bit of that bread or biscuit dough you're making, and throw it back in a jar, feed it (as noted above) and soon enough it will regenerate itself all over again.  And, any bread or other recipe can deal with having a teaspoon or so of the dough stolen to save and make another batch of sourdough.  It's like a crab which can grow a new claw.  As long as you have a bit of the original left, you can regenerate it again.

- This little factoid is really cool (IMO anyway).  There are some hardcore sourdough people, bakers who really get into everything sourdough.  I read an article recently where this one guy travels the world with his sourdough.  He's not bent on making sourdough everywhere he goes, but sourdough is created by natural yeasts which occur in the air.  When he travels to other locations he wants his sourdough strain to be exposed to the natural yeasts of that region, thus giving his sourdough a different flavor.  There are tens of billions of different types of yeasts, all depending on where you are.  If this guy travels to Europe, he creates a European strain of sourdough starter.  If he travels to Asia, he creates an Asian strain.  And the list goes on.  I think this is really cool...because after you get into sourdough you will realize that every one is different.  It's just like beer, or wine.  Your sourdough may taste one way, but your neighbor's sourdough just down the street may taste completely different.

- I used to go elk hunting with a homesteaded family in Wyoming (my home state).  This friend of mine's mother had a strain of sourdough which had been kept alive and going for over 150 years.  Every morning when we'd be up at 0200 in the morning she would send us off with a belly full of the best sourdough pancakes on this planet and a healthy dose of homemade blackberry syrup.  Best stuff I've probably ever eaten in my life!

- A lot of people 'name' their sourdough starters.  At first I couldn't wrap my head around this, but after you think about it...sourdough starter is a living thing.  It's not going to come, or sit, or rollover when you tell it to, like a dog will, but it's still a living thing, and every sourdough has its own "personality".  No two sourdoughs are alike; every single one is unique.  And every sourdough is based on a whole variety of factors like your location, your temperatures, what plants and critters you have around you...the list is endless, and so are the different strains of yeast.

Sourdough is some cool shit, man!  Really cool shit!!

We all know this is the Internet, right? The "Interwebz", as I call it, is so full of bullshit it just defies imagination! Sourdough is a perfect example. I'd bet there are 75,000 websites and blogs out there talking about sourdough, and most of them leave shit out, intentionally. They do it for clicks and whatever. (Sometimes I hate the Internet for this exact reason). I try not to do that. I also try to cut through all the bullshit like product promotions and other crap, and cut to the chase.

Of all those websites, videos and blogs; they're all trying to sell you something. "Hawking their wares", as I call it. They leave out key pieces of info so you'll "subscribe" or buy their training course (which is also chocked full of bullshit and noise), or buy their "special sauce" (whatever it is). Okay, fine. But I don't do that. I'm not sellin' anything. I'm also not tryin' to make my living off the Interwebz as an "influencer" (a name which makes me want to projectile vomit every single time I hear it!).

I am glad to share what I know with anyone who is interested. And if that nugget is 'sourdough' then so be it. If a billion people wake up tomorrow and want to make sourdough, you know what? My sourdough will only improve because of it. And, if I'm giving away their shit, well, tough, motherfuckers! I'm not givin' away anything I didn't already have, so put that in your pipe and smoke it, bitches! Just because they wanted to try to make a buck off it to support their crack and beauty products habit ain't my fuckin' problem!

Okay...got that off my chest! LOL!

edit - I wrote this last reply after I went out on Amazon and looked at all the snake oil salespeople selling... "REAL San Francisco Sourdough Starter"...for $14 dollars. This, compared to 100g of flour and 100g of water. What, the profit margin on that shit must be about 65,000%, right??? P.T. Barnum had it right...There's a sucker born every minute! You don't need any of that shit to make sourdough. Most of it is just flour...and nothing else. WTF???

(11-02-2024, 03:06 AM)FCD Wrote: Here's how to tell if your sourdough is ready.

First, by about day #8 (up to #14) your sourdough should rise every day.  It will usually fall when stirred initially.  But as time rolls on and it starts becoming true "sourdough" it won't fall anymore when you mix it.  Pretty soon you'll start running out of jar.  This is usually a pretty good indicator you're close.  So, there's basically (3) tests to tell if your sourdough is really "sourdough".  That is, that your sourdough is "ready".

Before covering those three things, it's important to understand what sourdough even is and why people do it.  Fundamentally, sourdough replaces yeast.  So, in a normal bread recipe you have to mix flour, water, salt and some form of yeast (rapid rise, or active, etc).  With sourdough, you don't have to add yeast; the sourdough IS your yeast.  That's the whole point of sourdough (aside from the awesome flavor, which just has no equal!).

Okay, so what are the three things to tell if your sourdough is ready?  Here they are:

1.  It rises, but no longer falls, on a daily basis
   
2. It's sticky.  If you tilt your jar and pull some away from the side, it should stick to the sides and be gummy.
   
3. It "floats".  If you take a partial teaspoon full and put it in a glass of water, the mixture will float on the water.
   

If your mixture meets these (3) criteria, you are golden!  Boom!  You're done!

Now, you do have to maintain your sourdough, but it's not every day, and depending on how you do it, it can be weeks or months.  It will never actually "die"


Here's some fun sourdough trivia:

- Sourdough can last for centuries if kept isolated from other stuff eating it.  Literally centuries.  That's kinda' cool.

- A "Sourdough" was a reference to a person, often gold and silver miners along the western seaboard up into the Yukon territory of Canada and Alaska.  The reason they were called "sourdoughs" is because many of them carried a locket around their neck with a bit of the sourdough starter (just like the one you just created).  This sourdough was their only means to bake bread, biscuits and any other foods requiring a leavening agent, and thus was a precious commodity.  Sourdough is really cool stuff.  Amazing stuff actually.

- OMG...what happens if I use up the last bit of my sourdough???? 

Heh, well, this is one of the coolest things about sourdough.  Say you use every last drop of it (and you forgot to make more each time).  Don't panic; just grab a tiny bit of that bread or biscuit dough you're making, and throw it back in a jar, feed it (as noted above) and soon enough it will regenerate itself all over again.  And, any bread or other recipe can deal with having a teaspoon or so of the dough stolen to save and make another batch of sourdough.  It's like a crab which can grow a new claw.  As long as you have a bit of the original left, you can regenerate it again.

- This little factoid is really cool (IMO anyway).  There are some hardcore sourdough people, bakers who really get into everything sourdough.  I read an article recently where this one guy travels the world with his sourdough.  He's not bent on making sourdough everywhere he goes, but sourdough is created by natural yeasts which occur in the air.  When he travels to other locations he wants his sourdough strain to be exposed to the natural yeasts of that region, thus giving his sourdough a different flavor.  There are tens of billions of different types of yeasts, all depending on where you are.  If this guy travels to Europe, he creates a European strain of sourdough starter.  If he travels to Asia, he creates an Asian strain.  And the list goes on.  I think this is really cool...because after you get into sourdough you will realize that every one is different.  It's just like beer, or wine.  Your sourdough may taste one way, but your neighbor's sourdough just down the street may taste completely different.

- I used to go elk hunting with a homesteaded family in Wyoming (my home state).  This friend of mine's mother had a strain of sourdough which had been kept alive and going for over 150 years.  Every morning when we'd be up at 0200 in the morning she would send us off with a belly full of the best sourdough pancakes on this planet and a healthy dose of homemade blackberry syrup.  Best stuff I've probably ever eaten in my life!

- A lot of people 'name' their sourdough starters.  At first I couldn't wrap my head around this, but after you think about it...sourdough starter is a living thing.  It's not going to come, or sit, or rollover when you tell it to, like a dog will, but it's still a living thing, and every sourdough has its own "personality".  No two sourdoughs are alike; every single one is unique.  And every sourdough is based on a whole variety of factors like your location, your temperatures, what plants and critters you have around you...the list is endless, and so are the different strains of yeast.

Sourdough is some cool shit, man!  Really cool shit!!

Very cool, FCD!

Wife and I will try this out this week.

I'm going to name mine 'Blob'

(11-03-2024, 07:50 AM)MykeNukem Wrote: Very cool, FCD!

Wife and I will try this out this week.

I'm going to name mine 'Blob'

I resisted the urge to name mine, but wound up calling it "Herbie". 

Some people have some pretty clever names.  My initial thought was "Homer" (as in, Homer Simpson), with the idea that if anyone asked me why I picked that name I'd just say..."DOH!!"  (as in 'dough'...get it?)  But then I thought that was too dumb, and too long.  My other thought was "Raymie"  (like 'dough rey mee'), but that was pretty dumb too (yes, I'm a dork).  So, I just went with Herbie.

"Blob" would have been perfect for my first attempt...because that's what it was.  My first loaf could have been called "Lethal Weapon"...because that's what it was.  Not edible, but dangerous as shit if you threw it at someone!