(10-02-2024, 04:58 PM)Ksihkehe Wrote:

(10-02-2024, 11:57 AM)19Bones79 Wrote: You raise a very valid point there my man. 

ATS is likely a soundboard for various groups all benefiting off the unique ecosystem. 

I have a few members in mind who have raised my suspicions but without undeniable proof those thoughts are pointless.

It does tickle my spidey sense.

The number of said members has gone down a bit. A couple haven't showed up and are likely locked out of accounts now.

The mostly meaningless bickering about irrelevant points that get ignored is the majority of the activity at this point.

The hammer and sickle was the most obvious trolling tactic available, with the broadest appeal to the conspiracy-minded normies. That was naturally where their minds went, as was the purpose. A trolling tactic where every person targeted then applies their biases to the motive and identity of the attacker... is good trolling.

There is no other motive that explains it, that I can come up with, other than pure trolling.

It's amusing seeing the alarmism over this on some of the associated forums. Nothing about the security of ATS has changed in at least a year. It's longer than a year if we disregard the breach that allowed moderator access to be restored. Prior to that and without knowing of any modifications the Samaritan hacker made at the time, it had been another six months or so since an admin had been around improving security. The only thing that changed is that someone chose to visibly exploit the security holes.

I think continued trolling will probably reduce the amount of activity, but at some point the reduced activity will make the trolling less rewarding for whoever is doing it.

Makes for interesting people watching.

I think a few folks may have signed up here as a result too. When you've got a site in such a state as ATS and then essentially port the staff to another site, questions arise for many observing as members. If they aren't part of any kind of clique or a legacy member with extensive history, they'll be filling in the blanks with whatever information they have. If ATS is insecure and poses a risk to those participating there, why is somebody still sweeping the floors and keeping the "open" sign on? It's only natural that people wonder, even if they're not giving it much deep though or articulating their concerns publicly.

There's no winning a rigged game. One must simply stop playing and exit on their own terms.

Transparency can do a great deal to alleviate these kinds of problems, but the culture of ATS has historically leaned heavily toward opacity. Hopefully, MPP rebalancing the scales on transparency and open dialog will be a welcomed change for many feeling displaced or left out in the shrinking discussion forum world.

I'm glad to see you made it here, along with many others that can do more than vomit talking points. I hope the trend continues and brings a true diversity of opinions. The desire for artificial "equity", having binary thinkers represented from both imaginary sides, only serves to encourage more binary thinking. We're not in a binary world and binary thinking is for machines.

I knew it wasn't "the Russians did it!" from the very first moment I saw it.  It was obvious it was a troll, but it was also a hack technically.  Besides, why would someone leave their fingerprints all over everything?  So, it was a diversion.  The question in my mind was a diversion from what?  As you state, the site has been compromised for over a year.  This was no secret.  I took the troll / hack as either a scare tactic or a warning (or both).  Also, the fact that the incident was selective was also telling. 

You hit the nail on the head with your question about why is there still care and feeding going on over at ATS and the "Open" sign is still lit?  I have posed this same question over the recent days, most recently yesterday on DI (along with some other pointed questions...before the thread got locked). This is the one thing which doesn't make any sense, and the one thing which makes me wonder if there is some ulterior motivation.

I have also voiced concerns about the restriction of political topics as well, only to be rebuffed by some of the old ATS mods.  I chalk it up to wanting the power and the authority (for ego) without having to have any responsibility; in short, laziness.  I've said as much too!  I'm tired of pussy-footing around.

Anyway, good to see you!

I got the feeling ATS has been left open and moderated is to 'harvest' as many members as possible.

I've always thought after ATS was sold it became one of the best data mining sites for all the three letter agencies to watch the pulse of us commoners and/or execute a controlled demolition. They don't need to know how pissed off people are my following forums; the signs are everywhere and the government seems to be making deliberate efforts to make sure we know they're the ones pouring gasoline on the fire they started.

I'm probably all wet, but that's where my CT brain wants to go. 

OH! Fun emojis!

(10-10-2024, 02:16 AM)Nugget Wrote: I got the feeling ATS has been left open and moderated is to 'harvest' as many members as possible.

I've always thought after ATS was sold it became one of the best data mining sites for all the three letter agencies to watch the pulse of us commoners and/or execute a controlled demolition. They don't need to know how pissed off people are my following forums; the signs are everywhere and the government seems to be making deliberate efforts to make sure we know they're the ones pouring gasoline on the fire they started.

I'm probably all wet, but that's where my CT brain wants to go. 

OH! Fun emojis!

Hiya Nugs

(10-09-2024, 04:53 PM)FCD Wrote:

(10-02-2024, 04:58 PM)Ksihkehe Wrote: The number of said members has gone down a bit. A couple haven't showed up and are likely locked out of accounts now.

The mostly meaningless bickering about irrelevant points that get ignored is the majority of the activity at this point.

The hammer and sickle was the most obvious trolling tactic available, with the broadest appeal to the conspiracy-minded normies. That was naturally where their minds went, as was the purpose. A trolling tactic where every person targeted then applies their biases to the motive and identity of the attacker... is good trolling.

There is no other motive that explains it, that I can come up with, other than pure trolling.

It's amusing seeing the alarmism over this on some of the associated forums. Nothing about the security of ATS has changed in at least a year. It's longer than a year if we disregard the breach that allowed moderator access to be restored. Prior to that and without knowing of any modifications the Samaritan hacker made at the time, it had been another six months or so since an admin had been around improving security. The only thing that changed is that someone chose to visibly exploit the security holes.

I think continued trolling will probably reduce the amount of activity, but at some point the reduced activity will make the trolling less rewarding for whoever is doing it.

Makes for interesting people watching.

I think a few folks may have signed up here as a result too. When you've got a site in such a state as ATS and then essentially port the staff to another site, questions arise for many observing as members. If they aren't part of any kind of clique or a legacy member with extensive history, they'll be filling in the blanks with whatever information they have. If ATS is insecure and poses a risk to those participating there, why is somebody still sweeping the floors and keeping the "open" sign on? It's only natural that people wonder, even if they're not giving it much deep though or articulating their concerns publicly.

There's no winning a rigged game. One must simply stop playing and exit on their own terms.

Transparency can do a great deal to alleviate these kinds of problems, but the culture of ATS has historically leaned heavily toward opacity. Hopefully, MPP rebalancing the scales on transparency and open dialog will be a welcomed change for many feeling displaced or left out in the shrinking discussion forum world.

I'm glad to see you made it here, along with many others that can do more than vomit talking points. I hope the trend continues and brings a true diversity of opinions. The desire for artificial "equity", having binary thinkers represented from both imaginary sides, only serves to encourage more binary thinking. We're not in a binary world and binary thinking is for machines.

I knew it wasn't "the Russians did it!" from the very first moment I saw it.  It was obvious it was a troll, but it was also a hack technically.  Besides, why would someone leave their fingerprints all over everything?  So, it was a diversion.  The question in my mind was a diversion from what?  As you state, the site has been compromised for over a year.  This was no secret.  I took the troll / hack as either a scare tactic or a warning (or both).  Also, the fact that the incident was selective was also telling. 

You hit the nail on the head with your question about why is there still care and feeding going on over at ATS and the "Open" sign is still lit?  I have posed this same question over the recent days, most recently yesterday on DI (along with some other pointed questions...before the thread got locked). This is the one thing which doesn't make any sense, and the one thing which makes me wonder if there is some ulterior motivation.

I have also voiced concerns about the restriction of political topics as well, only to be rebuffed by some of the old ATS mods.  I chalk it up to wanting the power and the authority (for ego) without having to have any responsibility; in short, laziness.  I've said as much too!  I'm tired of pussy-footing around.

Anyway, good to see you!

To the best of my knowledge and having input from a couple people more knowledgeable on the technical side than I am, I would call it an exploit rather than a hack. To me that means the difference between somebody kicking your door in and somebody opening your unlocked screen door. It's a fuzzy line if you're not in the know, but an important one. The exact method could be surmised from the pattern of what was modified, who was modified, and the ordered clusters in which the modifications took place. You just have to understand a bit where and how the data is moving between the client and server. For me a rudimentary understanding was enough to figure it out, but some others have much more detailed knowledge of the process and concur.

I know it's hard for those in the fish bowl to believe, but there are people that find tapping the side of the bowl amusing and think it's mostly harmless. I wouldn't do it, but would be lying if I said I didn't find the scrambling and darting about to be somewhat entertaining. Ten years of Russia nonsense was leveraged for what is essentially a prank and many swallowed the whole hook. Good times.

I don't believe most of the ATS mods cared or care about power. Most have been doing it long enough, and had largely been left to their own devices by ownership, that the team had become its own social cohort that was independent of the moderation function. They had, for better or worse, lived in the trenches as a group. The preservation of the moderator cohort was more a function of preserving a social group than anything. Most of the ATS mod team had ceased doing much moderating long before the ownership troubles and, even if DI gets a significant bit of flow from ATS collapsing, there is almost no chance that they will ever need more than a few moderators. With topic restrictions surrounding politics that is almost certain to be the case.

New blood is a wise idea, people that are eager to do the customer service and welcome wagon functions. There are good things being done at DI as well.

It is difficult for most people, mods included, to separate the mod from the moderation. It doesn't help when "moderator" becomes more of a title rather than a job description, a social classification rather than a functional role. If you don't want to bake bread, you shouldn't be made a baker or accept that title. While we can all appreciate the bread baked five years ago, we can't eat that bread tomorrow.

It's more about letting go, in general, than it is about letting go of power specifically. That's in my opinion, of course. I can't fault people for wanting to preserve things that they found valuable. I just don't see a much smaller and slightly more permissive version of Reddit as preserving anything meaningful from ATS except the social group that's been transplanted there. Perhaps that's enough for those that don't want to let go. It's just not an upgrade or even an equal replacement for those that are looking for a real meaty discussion forum.

I don't see why both sites can't coexist, in the absence of ATS. I don't see them as occupying the same niche, nor even intending to. The main burr in my paw is that DI has defacto control over the flow of information available to the readers of ATS. Those that DI has openly excluded, including even the readers that may never post, aren't being considered. Nevermind that the participants will, and already have, run into moderation issues when bringing their ATS discussions to DI. Not giving them an option to transition to a site where they're welcomed isn't going to help DI and will probably result in headaches for them.

Given that ATS ownership has already thoroughly proven how little they care and given that DI has made it clear that politically sensitive topics are not wanted, it is illogical and irrational for this situation to persist. It's really just personal crap and meaningless adherence to long abandoned rules. It's silly and easily remedied, but the longer it goes unresolved the more burdened by personal crap it will become.

I don't understand the DI thing at all. I do get the only "weird" stuff logic, but much of that "weird" stuff can be traced back to the government.

I am in the middle of, what I think, will be a fun thread about that. I am still working on getting all my links, etc, and in day 1 of tech for a dance show, so it is slow coming, but it will be here as a new thread in a few days.

(10-10-2024, 06:01 PM)Ksihkehe Wrote:

(10-09-2024, 04:53 PM)FCD Wrote: I knew it wasn't "the Russians did it!" from the very first moment I saw it.  It was obvious it was a troll, but it was also a hack technically.  Besides, why would someone leave their fingerprints all over everything?  So, it was a diversion.  The question in my mind was a diversion from what?  As you state, the site has been compromised for over a year.  This was no secret.  I took the troll / hack as either a scare tactic or a warning (or both).  Also, the fact that the incident was selective was also telling. 

You hit the nail on the head with your question about why is there still care and feeding going on over at ATS and the "Open" sign is still lit?  I have posed this same question over the recent days, most recently yesterday on DI (along with some other pointed questions...before the thread got locked). This is the one thing which doesn't make any sense, and the one thing which makes me wonder if there is some ulterior motivation.

I have also voiced concerns about the restriction of political topics as well, only to be rebuffed by some of the old ATS mods.  I chalk it up to wanting the power and the authority (for ego) without having to have any responsibility; in short, laziness.  I've said as much too!  I'm tired of pussy-footing around.

Anyway, good to see you!

To the best of my knowledge and having input from a couple people more knowledgeable on the technical side than I am, I would call it an exploit rather than a hack. To me that means the difference between somebody kicking your door in and somebody opening your unlocked screen door. It's a fuzzy line if you're not in the know, but an important one. The exact method could be surmised from the pattern of what was modified, who was modified, and the ordered clusters in which the modifications took place. You just have to understand a bit where and how the data is moving between the client and server. For me a rudimentary understanding was enough to figure it out, but some others have much more detailed knowledge of the process and concur.

I know it's hard for those in the fish bowl to believe, but there are people that find tapping the side of the bowl amusing and think it's mostly harmless. I wouldn't do it, but would be lying if I said I didn't find the scrambling and darting about to be somewhat entertaining. Ten years of Russia nonsense was leveraged for what is essentially a prank and many swallowed the whole hook. Good times.

I don't believe most of the ATS mods cared or care about power. Most have been doing it long enough, and had largely been left to their own devices by ownership, that the team had become its own social cohort that was independent of the moderation function. They had, for better or worse, lived in the trenches as a group. The preservation of the moderator cohort was more a function of preserving a social group than anything. Most of the ATS mod team had ceased doing much moderating long before the ownership troubles and, even if DI gets a significant bit of flow from ATS collapsing, there is almost no chance that they will ever need more than a few moderators. With topic restrictions surrounding politics that is almost certain to be the case.

New blood is a wise idea, people that are eager to do the customer service and welcome wagon functions. There are good things being done at DI as well.

It is difficult for most people, mods included, to separate the mod from the moderation. It doesn't help when "moderator" becomes more of a title rather than a job description, a social classification rather than a functional role. If you don't want to bake bread, you shouldn't be made a baker or accept that title. While we can all appreciate the bread baked five years ago, we can't eat that bread tomorrow.

It's more about letting go, in general, than it is about letting go of power specifically. That's in my opinion, of course. I can't fault people for wanting to preserve things that they found valuable. I just don't see a much smaller and slightly more permissive version of Reddit as preserving anything meaningful from ATS except the social group that's been transplanted there. Perhaps that's enough for those that don't want to let go. It's just not an upgrade or even an equal replacement for those that are looking for a real meaty discussion forum.

I don't see why both sites can't coexist, in the absence of ATS. I don't see them as occupying the same niche, nor even intending to. The main burr in my paw is that DI has defacto control over the flow of information available to the readers of ATS. Those that DI has openly excluded, including even the readers that may never post, aren't being considered. Nevermind that the participants will, and already have, run into moderation issues when bringing their ATS discussions to DI. Not giving them an option to transition to a site where they're welcomed isn't going to help DI and will probably result in headaches for them.

Given that ATS ownership has already thoroughly proven how little they care and given that DI has made it clear that politically sensitive topics are not wanted, it is illogical and irrational for this situation to persist. It's really just personal crap and meaningless adherence to long abandoned rules. It's silly and easily remedied, but the longer it goes unresolved the more burdened by personal crap it will become.

Candidly, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me, or taking exception to what I've said. It seems like a bit of both, but in a contrary way.  That's okay.

I don't really care about any of this.  I don't care about ATS, who did what, or anything else.  I only care in the respect that I'd like to know what happened for my own personal information.  I doubt this will happen, as I have stated on numerous occasions.  I'm so far away from the purchase of ATS now I can't even remember the first names of most of the people (other than those I keep in contact with on a purely friendship basis).

It's unfortunate about ATS; it was a cool place once, but what has happened is not something new (for ATS).  There has been a lot of bad "Ju-Ju" going on for a long time.  What frustrates me is some of the mods who make this seem like it didn't happen, BUT...this doesn't keep me awake at night.  Honestly, ATS is just another ship in the night.

You've written a long response to me, and I appreciate it.  I will soak up the information you have posted.  It won't change my opinion of ATS, or the leadership (or lack thereof), one way or the other.

Bottom line...the site is broken. 

As I have noted earlier (and regularly), the one question which remains is...why does anyone moderate the site now (i.e. today)?  It is clearly out of control, so what is the point?  (rhetorical question)  There IS no point.

Beyond this, I say again; I'm not sure if you are agreeing, or disagreeing, with me.  And frankly, I'm not sure it matters whatever way you answer (IF you answer).

My days on ATS are done.

(10-10-2024, 06:37 PM)FCD Wrote:

(10-10-2024, 06:01 PM)Ksihkehe Wrote: To the best of my knowledge and having input from a couple people more knowledgeable on the technical side than I am, I would call it an exploit rather than a hack. To me that means the difference between somebody kicking your door in and somebody opening your unlocked screen door. It's a fuzzy line if you're not in the know, but an important one. The exact method could be surmised from the pattern of what was modified, who was modified, and the ordered clusters in which the modifications took place. You just have to understand a bit where and how the data is moving between the client and server. For me a rudimentary understanding was enough to figure it out, but some others have much more detailed knowledge of the process and concur.

I know it's hard for those in the fish bowl to believe, but there are people that find tapping the side of the bowl amusing and think it's mostly harmless. I wouldn't do it, but would be lying if I said I didn't find the scrambling and darting about to be somewhat entertaining. Ten years of Russia nonsense was leveraged for what is essentially a prank and many swallowed the whole hook. Good times.

I don't believe most of the ATS mods cared or care about power. Most have been doing it long enough, and had largely been left to their own devices by ownership, that the team had become its own social cohort that was independent of the moderation function. They had, for better or worse, lived in the trenches as a group. The preservation of the moderator cohort was more a function of preserving a social group than anything. Most of the ATS mod team had ceased doing much moderating long before the ownership troubles and, even if DI gets a significant bit of flow from ATS collapsing, there is almost no chance that they will ever need more than a few moderators. With topic restrictions surrounding politics that is almost certain to be the case.

New blood is a wise idea, people that are eager to do the customer service and welcome wagon functions. There are good things being done at DI as well.

It is difficult for most people, mods included, to separate the mod from the moderation. It doesn't help when "moderator" becomes more of a title rather than a job description, a social classification rather than a functional role. If you don't want to bake bread, you shouldn't be made a baker or accept that title. While we can all appreciate the bread baked five years ago, we can't eat that bread tomorrow.

It's more about letting go, in general, than it is about letting go of power specifically. That's in my opinion, of course. I can't fault people for wanting to preserve things that they found valuable. I just don't see a much smaller and slightly more permissive version of Reddit as preserving anything meaningful from ATS except the social group that's been transplanted there. Perhaps that's enough for those that don't want to let go. It's just not an upgrade or even an equal replacement for those that are looking for a real meaty discussion forum.

I don't see why both sites can't coexist, in the absence of ATS. I don't see them as occupying the same niche, nor even intending to. The main burr in my paw is that DI has defacto control over the flow of information available to the readers of ATS. Those that DI has openly excluded, including even the readers that may never post, aren't being considered. Nevermind that the participants will, and already have, run into moderation issues when bringing their ATS discussions to DI. Not giving them an option to transition to a site where they're welcomed isn't going to help DI and will probably result in headaches for them.

Given that ATS ownership has already thoroughly proven how little they care and given that DI has made it clear that politically sensitive topics are not wanted, it is illogical and irrational for this situation to persist. It's really just personal crap and meaningless adherence to long abandoned rules. It's silly and easily remedied, but the longer it goes unresolved the more burdened by personal crap it will become.

Candidly, I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me, or taking exception to what I've said. It seems like a bit of both, but in a contrary way.  That's okay.

I don't really care about any of this.  I don't care about ATS, who did what, or anything else.  I only care in the respect that I'd like to know what happened for my own personal information.  I doubt this will happen, as I have stated on numerous occasions.  I'm so far away from the purchase of ATS now I can't even remember the first names of most of the people (other than those I keep in contact with on a purely friendship basis).

It's unfortunate about ATS; it was a cool place once, but what has happened is not something new (for ATS).  There has been a lot of bad "Ju-Ju" going on for a long time.  What frustrates me is some of the mods who make this seem like it didn't happen, BUT...this doesn't keep me awake at night.  Honestly, ATS is just another ship in the night.

You've written a long response to me, and I appreciate it.  I will soak up the information you have posted.  It won't change my opinion of ATS, or the leadership (or lack thereof), one way or the other.

Bottom line...the site is broken. 

As I have noted earlier (and regularly), the one question which remains is...why does anyone moderate the site now (i.e. today)?  It is clearly out of control, so what is the point?  (rhetorical question)  There IS no point.

Beyond this, I say again; I'm not sure if you are agreeing, or disagreeing, with me.  And frankly, I'm not sure it matters whatever way you answer (IF you answer).

My days on ATS are done.

I didn't make any specific point on agreement or disagreement that I'm aware of. It's mostly opinion, subject to change when more information presents itself. I didn't think it was done in a contrarian way, but maybe that's how it reads.

While I was replying to you, I assume others might be reading. Hopefully, that includes people that aren't participating here but are part of the broader discussions elsewhere. Part of the reason I elaborate excessively on topics like this is specifically because of who else is reading, so they don't need to read into what I might be leaving unsaid.

I did offer the reason why it's still being moderated today, though. Maybe it was lost in there. People don't want to let go. It's not rational, but that's people. This last breach has seemed to change that dynamic a bit, but it's still hard for people to let go. For some people that's bickering about dumb shit, for some people that's moderating the people bickering about dumb shit.

(10-10-2024, 10:32 AM)19Bones79 Wrote: Hiya Nugs

Hi Bones! Glad you're here, too! :drinkingcheers: